EMAIL THREAD "Dr. Joel Fuhrman" I find the obsession with "Dr. Joel Fuhrman" here on Peertrainer a bit cultish. I'm not suggesting that a diet based on fuits and vegetables is a bad idea. I love veggies and eat mountains of them prepared in many interesting ways. But many of us here are trying to manage our weight in the context of our family traditions and cultural norms. We are faced with hamburgers on July 4th, lasagna on Sunday afternoon at Grandma's, pizza and chicken wings at the superbowl party. Are we really meant to just say no to all of this? Or is the ultimate goal to learn to enjoy and eat moderately? Thu. Apr 30, 9:57pm

I like the Fuhrman plan because for me it works. All cravings for unhealthy food have completely disappeared (even more, the site of unhealthy food does not induce any desire at all to eat it), I have about 10 times more engery then before, my skin looks better then ever, and it is easy to follow. I guess these are probably the same reasons other people are so "Fuhrman Crazy". The changes in how you want to eat, how you feel, and how you look are so huge that it is really unbelievable until you do it (trust me, I was a skeptic). Losing weight and staying healthy is much easier if you are not even tempted to eat food that is bad for you, and that is what his plan has done for me and many others. If you are trying to manage your weight, no matter what your plan is, if it includes things like July 4th hamburgers, lasagna, pizza and chicken wings it is going to be pretty hard to reach weight loss goals. Losing weight means sacrifices, Dr. Fuhrman style or not, you can't eat these things and lose weight. If you eat the same way you always did, you will always be where you are now. In any case, people should just do what works for them, but I don't think the cult following is without reason, once you try it it feels like there is no going back. Friday, May 01, 2009, 10:24 AM

"But many of us here are trying to manage our weight in the context of our family traditions and cultural norms. We are faced with hamburgers on July 4th, lasagna on Sunday afternoon at Grandma's, pizza and chicken wings at the superbowl party." Let's hope that cultural norms change. The type and quanitity of food that constitutes the average American diet is not what your grandma grew up with. Be the change (even a drastic change), for yourself and for your family. Friday, May 01, 2009, 6:53 PM

OP here. I admit that I am playing devil's advocate by starting this thread. While I don't follow Joel Fuhrman's plan I do believe a good goal is to eat as low on the food chain as often as possible. It's good for our bodies and the planet. I weigh 118 and so far my health is good, so it seems to work for me. I guess I'm coming at this from the angle of a cultural anthropologist. I admit the basic American diet has evolved into something diabolical. So let's change the examples from cheese burgers and fried chicken wings washed down with 24 oz. jugs of pop to the types of things our great grandparents might have enjoyed. Hand rolled pasta with wild boar ragu (my great grandma did roll her own pasta by hand), cassoulet with duck and homemade sausage, or maybe your great grandparents are Greek and they enjoyed wholemilk yogurt drizzled with honey for breakfast. All of this stuff is taboo according to Fuhrman, yet it is the stuff that sustained our ancestors and is deeply woven into our individual traditions and cultural heritages. My point is that most people won't find it easy to turn their backs on all this in favor of a plateful of steamed kale dressed with one teaspoon of olive oil (and no salt!) We can't really deny the wonderfully human idea of "cuisine". It's one thing that separates us from the very animals Fuhrman suggests we don't eat. I'm not knocking vegans or vegitarians or really any dietary regime that helps people get a handle on their weight and health. I am critical of PT's pushing a diet that, for many people, would be extremely difficult to sustain. Friday, May 01, 2009, 8:17 PM

I would say the same thing about weight watchers, fat smash, south beach, I think anyone who finds something that works likes to be a "zealot" about it. Why wouldn't you? When you're excited about something, you want to shout it to the rooftops to help others. You can still enjoy your food at your family, just do what works for you and don't worry about what others are doing. Saturday, May 02, 2009, 8:11 AM

Food has changed a lot since great grandmothers were hand rolling pasta. If she was hand rolling past, maybe she also used whole wheat flour ground from grains of a local farmer, not the refined white flower pasta that most North Americans use. My guess is that back in the days of eating wild boar, that boar ate a natural healthy diet, unlike the factory farmed animals we eat today that are fed garbage, making their meat less nutritious and more fatty then they were back then. I'm not strictly a vegan, every now and then I enjoy some yogurt or even some meat, but many other cultures lived on (and still live on) almost vegan diets, and being vegan does not mean giving up cuisine, it just means eating different cuisine (it's not all kale and olive oil, there are an infinite amount of vegan recipes you can make) I do like Dr.Fuhrman, but I would not say it is the only way to stay thin, different things work for different people, but if you do read his book, he actually offers options for people that do not want to be vegan, and is not expecting everyone to be perfect all the time. Even if you never want to eat vegan or follow his plan, his books are filled with very interesting nutritional information. Saturday, May 02, 2009, 9:13 AM

Everyone has to "manage our weight in the context of our family traditions and cultural norms." We are social creatures and most don't eat in a solitary fashion. Is it easy to follow Fuhrman's approach? For some, no... For me, yes. I entertain friends often and cook for my family daily --- for them, I include some chicken and fish (maybe 2 meals each week), but we all eat lots of salad, fruit and veg daily. We are healthy, social and we enjoy our food as much, if not more than we did 5 years ago when we were eating mostly SAD foods. The issue I have with the OP's comment is that the science is hard to refute. It's not a matter of being "cultish", rather, it's a matter of common sense. You can't read Fuhrman's work and the studies he cites and continue eating cholesterol laden, calorie dense/nutrient poor foods and expect to be healthy. What Fuhrman and others like him(Ornish, McDougall, Esselstyn, Oz) present are the facts of nutrition and health. Doesn't mean that you can't enjoy flavorful, comforting, socially acceptable foods. Does usually mean that if you're going to eat out you will be eating a salad or steamed veg plate if you in a mainstream restaurant. But if you enjoy cooking at home, there is no reason why you can't adapt the flavors of your native cuisine to match a health habit so that you feel satisfied and reap the health benefits at the same time. Many of our family and friends have adopted the nutritarian approach to eating because they have seen what an amazing difference it has made in our health and because they have both seen and tasted the flavors that they love in new and healthy ways. I agree that health should be about achieving balance. Read Fuhrman's work and realize that it is a blueprint for balance. It may not be the easiest cultural move, but it is a great move for health as well as being a back to basics approach that our ancestors certainly understood and embraced. Saturday, May 02, 2009, 9:33 AM

PP - great post. Monday, May 04, 2009, 1:14 AM

My friend, you need to read the book "Eat to Live" and then you'll understand. It is a passion of Health! Just like some of us are psycho runners and like to run 30 miles a day, some of us are Fuhrman psychos and just marvel at how he has changed our lives, now and in the future! I don't think the message is deprivation, rather learning how to pamper your body and BEAT the cravings and disease with Superior Nutrition. Myself, as soon as I finished his book I couldn't help but follow it. It wasn't a choice! Look. Go watch the Futurama episode about Slurm. LOL Then you'll get it. We just know where Slurm comes from now and can't go back, you know? =) I don't look down on people trying to preserve culture and tradition at all...but just as it will not stop me from trying a small bite of their fav dish their dish won't stop me from ranting about how my Acne spontaneously went away and my life long dehabilitating sleep disorder vanished all at the same time on his miracle advice. Sigh. He is my hero. Monday, May 04, 2009, 2:25 AM

Fuhrman is popular because he presents a solution to a problem. Even if you don't follow his diet 100% (and who out there follows any diet 100%) you will benefit. Just learning his principles is helpful. Monday, May 04, 2009, 7:08 AM

related thread: Link Sunday, October 25, 2009, 12:42 PM

Eat to Live So I finally got the book and have to agree it is pretty eye opening (and based on factual info). I have been following the diet loosely (still eat yogurt, meat about once a week and the occasional dessert), and am feeling great. In general my moods have improved, I seem to have a much more positive outlook on life, my sleep is better, skin has improved and it really has stopped my binges! I will follow this diet and would recommend it to anyone. Once you have the basics you can adapt a lot of recipes to suit and you'll find your cravings pretty much disappear. I am not overweight, (although was a few pounds heavier then I'd have liked), and have lost about 5 pounds in the last months without ever going hungry. It has stopped my obsessing over food and seems to be the most user friendly program I have found. It really is a lifestyle change! Def worth raving about!! Plus if it wasn't raved about so much I wouldn't have found it and thank god I did!!! Friday, October 30, 2009, 7:47 AM

the reason we continue to promote him so heavily is that we keep getting great feedback from the PEERtrainer community. His approach, in COMBINATION with others is proving to helping many people. In fact, his newest offering is an online health risk assessment. This is the single most important takeaway, is that he is very health oriented. -Habib Link Friday, October 30, 2009, 10:03 AM

how long does it take of following the diet (for the most part) to have the longer lasting effects happen, like the skin, good moods, good sleep, etc....? and the weight, that should be steady and slow I am hoping. I just started after reading EFH, have some downfalls (pizza last sunday) but am very good during the weekends. Will it work that way? thanks Friday, October 30, 2009, 8:17 PM

a question.. I have the Eat for Health 2 books.. was thinking about Eat to Live but am not sure its worth it.. is there more info that I really would need?.. any thoughts or comments? Saturday, October 31, 2009, 7:30 PM

I'd read both I read Eat to Live before I read Eat For Health. ETL is much more concise and to the point. I found it to be a no non-sense/no hand holding apporach. The info is presented clearly and is laid out well and you just need to go from there. Eat for Health seems to me to be geared for people who are currently eating mostly SAD foods and who might need phases to help the transition to a nutrient dense way of eating. I think everyone should read Eat to Live. It made the difference for me. Eat for Health was helpful because it provided some recipes and more detail on motivation and on which foods are the most nutrient dense --- I really knew to focus on the greenest greens when I read EFH. So, the long and short of it is that I would read ETL also, if you can. Best decision I've made for my health. Good luck. Sarah_L Sunday, November 01, 2009, 2:52 PM

online health risk assessment Yes, Dr. Fuhrman's online health risk assessment is available but it's not really free. You have to sign up for a free 14 day trial and will receive his books, recipes and dvds, but you pay for the shipping. 21 days afterwards your account will be charged $97 unless you return the materials. But they do not provide directions on how to or where to return the materials. And you have to pay for the return shipment yourself. I think PT needs to be clear about the up front costs involved when they encourage folks to try the health assessment. Also, you need to have blood test results in order to make the assessment really accurate. Sunday, November 01, 2009, 4:38 PM

How long for positive effects to kick in... OK well in amswer to your question, I felt shocking for the first 4 to 6 days as was a major sugar addict and pretty much slept and felt lathargic the whole time but my pride in what I was doing got me through the tough time. I ate heaps of fruit in that time to try and kick the sugar withdrawals and low and behold I emerged a new, improved me! I lost a lot of weight I was holding from water retention and even the whites of my eyes became more sparkly! I'd say give it a week or two and you'll feel the benefits. As well as fruit I ate a few handfulls of nuts a few times a day until I could start recognising my real hunger. I still feel like over eating sometimes but now I crave a fruit salad with raisins instead of a family block of chocolate and I'm not even doing it that strictly. I still eat diary and have a hot choc most nights (although avoid cheese MOST of the time). I def don't beat myself up over a 'slip' here and there and now actually really enjoy that odd dessert, instead of feeling guilty and not really getting any pleasure out of eating it. It has in some way made me enjoy indulgence (which I am sure is not the goal but a plus for me) and helps me see eating 'bad' food as just that, an occasional indulgence! I seriously would recommend this 'diet' to anyone!! Tuesday, November 03, 2009, 10:40 AM

10:40, It sounds like you did the ETL, the real strict one? And lots of weight loss, how much was that in what amount of time? I am not just into the weight loss though that is the #1 incentive, and I am agree that slow loss is the best way, but for me to stick with a program, I need to see the scale move or I give up, as I did last week and am now floundering again. But maybe I'll try it again. It's that or a very low fat, lots of veggie diet as I don't have a gall bladder and I recently read that it might effect my ability to lose weight, esp. with the fats. That and the wine I really like, hard to metabolise fat if alchol is involved. I really want to lose 10 lbs by the holidays, and then the next 5-8 and I'll be at goal. Tuesday, November 03, 2009, 12:36 PM

In response to 12:36, I lost about 8 pounds in about 3 - 4 weeks but a lot of that was def water retention. Not alot of weight by some standards, but for me it is. I wasn't technically classed as over weight to begin with but had put on about 20 pounds since moving countries and am def not where I should be. My diet is not strict (especially by ELT standards), today for example, I have had a latte, skim yogurt, pineapple, sm pack of raisins, 10 almonds, sunflower seeds, green salad with dressing, 2 banana's, 2 huge bowls of chilli-brocolli-tomato soup, half a pita with hummus and will probably have a hot choc later on tonight. So I am still eating a lot, I just try and base my main meals around fruit and veg. I def have way too much diary but as long as its not cheese or chocolate I am happy with that! I completely understand what you mean about the scales. I was completely obsessed with the scales and that has stopped unintentionally (not that I'm complaining). People always talk about a lifestyle change and I never really understood it until I started eating better without counting calories or looking for a short term gain (or loss in this case). Don't get me wrong I still have days where I stare at my tummy in the mirror and scowl but the feeling isn't as dire as before. Basically what I am trying to say (in a very long winded way - sorry) is that I feel better and you might to. Wednesday, November 04, 2009, 11:05 AM

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