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screw political correctness. i'll say if i think you are i am fat
it drives me absolutely bonkers that you cannot tell someone they're fat these days because it's not "politically correct" Obesity is NOT a disability. It is a disease you put on yourself (granted someone people have a greater genetic disposition). You do not belong in the handicapped parking spot. You do not deserve to sit down more than an elderly person. YOU ARE NOT DISABLED.
We look at people who are smoking and say...."what do you think you're doing? Don't you know how terrible that is? You're slowly killing yourself and probably giving yourself lung cancer. STOP THAT"
No one thinks that a smoker is "disabled"
So my statement to the obese...."what do you think you're doing? Don't you know how terrible that is? You're slowly killing yourself and probably giving yourself heart disease, diabetes, etc. STOP THAT"
Thu. Aug 16, 10:48am
I agree. I haveno problem giving an obese woman a stare-down when she takes up 2 seets on the train instead on 1. I mean, she only pays for 1, what gives her the right to take 2??? Same on buses, planes, and pretty much anywhere else.
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 11:00 AM
Boy, OP, you sound like a real gem. I wish we were friends in real life.
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 11:14 AM
it's not totally about being politically correct. it's about having tact and manners. and minding your own business. if someone asks you about how you perceive their appearance, then they are opening themselves up for compliments or criticism. but a "stare down"? what are you trying to prove? that you do not approve of the way someone else looks? let me put it this way: you come off as rude and in need of some real manners, not to mention a more educated outlook about others. pay more attention to your self and allow others to take care of themselves, unless asked to do otherwise. work on who your are on the inside instead of paying so much attention to how others look on the outside. who do you think you are to judge and preach? don't you know how terrible that is? STOP THAT.
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 11:29 AM
OK, screw political correctness, but I am trying to teach my kids that calling someone names is wrong. Seems to me that calling someone fat is probably not going to do any one any good.
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 11:36 AM
Go 11:29 poster! I love the way you put that- Well said!
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 11:38 AM
I'd feel sorry for your children, if you have any. "No, that's not a dog. That's a scribble." "That tastes like crap. Did you read the recipe right?" "You suck at reading. I had to help you with over half the words." Wow, people like you ... :( Do you even have feelings?
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 11:39 AM
You seem not to have gotten the point of my statement.
"what are you trying to prove? that you do not approve of the way someone else looks?"
Did I say anything about looks? No, I talked of SPACE. Space where I could have been sitting, or someone else who is tired and in need of a seat and who paid for one. What if I decided to take up 2 seats too? One with my bag....people would complain, because I only paid for 1 seat. But, what allowes an obese person to take up 2 seats??
"work on who your are on the inside instead of paying so much attention to how others look on the outside"
Again, nobody is taking about looks. I didn't even mention that obese people look disgousting, even though they do, now that you mention it. And yes, I pay a lot of attention to myself. Thanks.
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 11:49 AM
I actually agree with you all. To the extent that someone''s obesity negatively impacts others, I think it is reasonable to be annoyed. If classified as a disabilty, then buses, trains and planes need to build bigger seats for those who are "disabled", just like they have to provide handicapped access. Either that or charge for the extra space.
On the other hand, being annoyed is one thing. Being rude is another. You acheive nothing by being rude except for a loss of respect from others.
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 11:50 AM
OP here: i suppose i ought to defend myself haha
i love how "self-righteous" you all are feeling this wonderful morning.
11:29 am: please do not try to pretend that you never judge. "let me put it this way: you come off as rude and in need of some real manners, not to mention a more educated outlook about others. pay more attention to your self and allow others to take care of themselves, unless asked to do otherwise. work on who your are on the inside instead of paying so much attention to how others look on the outside" people like you think that's it's okay to think these things as long as you don't say it outloud because that's manners right? you're just as judgmental even when you hide it inside so step down from your pedestal please.
11:36 am: yes calling someone names is wrong. i wasn't implying that i go around all day saying hi fatty fat fat. but pretending to ignore the fact that someone is fat or failing to acknowledge it for fear of hurting their feelings is not going to do any good either. they'll just stay in stasis.
11:39 am: you completely missed my point. please do not extend my statements beyond what i write. children learning to draw, cook, or read is totally unrelated. i was commenting on smokers and obese people being unhealthy. how does this extend to children at all?? unrelated and moot
so to clarify perhaps: i think it is extremely silly that everyone must tiptoe around the feelings of a obese person. i don't think they deserve any preferential treatment. being obese is something you can work and fix to beocme healtheir just as is a smoking habit. but we hold a double standard for fat people because although they're in no way disabled, we feel like we should give them the preferential treatment. people wouldn't think i was being insulting or mean if i told a friend smoker, "you know, you really shouldn't smoke. it's not good for you and will make you more unhealthy" yet i'm pretty sure, at least from what i've read here" that I'd by lynched if i suggested to a fat friend "you know, you really shouldn't eat that third burger. it's not good for you and will make you more unhealthy (fatter)"
this political incorrectness bullshit is simply that...bullshit. becuase being fat is not a disability. it is not a disadvantage deserving of sympathy. it is not something you're born with. it is not something you cannot help. being fat is not what is supposed to be the NORM it is not what is supposed to be OKAY and we certainly should not teach our children that fatness is just a "disability"
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 12:06 PM
Its all about compassion for others feelings. How would you feel if someone walked up to you and said boy your ugly you should put a bag over your head? Anyone who would make someone else purposely feel bad has something wrong with them. You can have empathy and still feel annoyed. Don't you think that fat person taking up the 2 seats feels bad and embarrassed already? No reason to stare and be a cunt about it. Oops did I say that C word out loud, lol!
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 12:29 PM
you are all so hypocritical
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 12:35 PM
Real compassionate there 12:29...
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 12:36 PM
it may be hard to wrap your thoughts around this, but i am not a person who, at this point in my life, at 38 years old, with much life experience under my belt, makes judgements based on people's appearance. i have learned that that is prejudicial and unfair. i have grown out of it. i have taken into account that others live the life they want, not the life i want for them. i do not look down on others, as if i was on a pedestal, but rather feel like i could be anyone i come into contact with, and so i treat people the way i wish to be treated. to claim that you are not remarking about a person's appearance while in the same breath saying obese people are disgusting is absurd. if you have a problem with the way bus seats only accomodate people who are not obese, why not take up the issue with the company which provides the bus service? address the issue to those who can change it. do you really think that anyone would take to heart the message that you are trying to convey? your thoughts are your own and you can control how you react to the weorld and the people around you. if you find yourself thinking that some stranger should lose weight, why not turn that thought into an opportunity to discuss peertrainer and the success you have had by joining? turn that thought into a reason to keep yourself in shape. when you embrace the positive in all situations (or when you create it, as is sometimes necessary), you also embrace empathy and can develope a great amount of self worth, thus eliminating the need to put others down.
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 1:20 PM
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 1:23 PM
I would never say that to a smoker, let alone anyone else and I'm not a "politically correct" kind of person. Telling someone else what you think of them (if it's unkind) is just plain RUDE and non of your business!!! You know the song by Bon Jovi???? Yeah, it' s their life.
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 1:26 PM
Not the OP here...I don't agree with everything the OP says but I just had to say that 1:26pm, I would hate to be your friend. If I were drunk and starting to climb in the driver's seat of my car, I'd much prefer the OP as my friend who'd stop me and probably take my keys than you who would watch me weave down the highway while singing Bon Jovi.
That being said, I think what 1:20 said was a great idea: we can encourage someone to join PT (yeah PT!) and tell them about how well we've done. Although side note: I don't think the OP was the one talking about the buses. I think that was the person after them.
At the same time, I understand (somewhat) how the OP feels. I know that I've been in situations where I try to suggest a walk instead of going out to eat to a friend who's overweight, but they've taken it the wrong way and very poorly. She got angry at me and accused me of telling her she was fat (even though I have my own weight problems). It's hard because I want to help my friends just like I would want my friends to help me. After all, sometimes we need someone to tell us that we need to make a change for us to realize it. I think it's just a touchy subject.
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 2:06 PM
Are you, or have you ever been overweight? Do you have any idea what it's like? True, obese people often cause inconvience for themselves and the people around them. But don't you think that they realize that, and are extremely embarrassed about it? Very few overweight people are in denial about the health risks associated with their weight, and usually, they're trying to do something about it.
I don't really think that telling someone that they're fat is "politically incorrect", but it is rude and uncalled for.
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 2:14 PM
I think that it depends...
If the obese person is a good friend and you are gently trying to encourage them to improve their health, than it's fine.
But just being mad at and rude to people just because they're obese? I don't think that's helping anyone.
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 2:17 PM
As far as smoking goes, whoever wrote that comment, YES I would absolutely be rude to a smoker that was smoking near me. I have a right to clean air, it's not just a matter of invasion of privacy, but also law. It's in the constitution "A right to clean air". Same for a fat person who is taking up a seat that I could be sitting on after walking for God knows how long and being tired.
And this is not the same as putting a bag over someone's face because they're ugly. Someone's ugliness does not affect others in a negative way. But these things do.
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 2:19 PM
1) inner ugliness affects everyone. 2) if you've shared what you classify as advice with a friend and have received a rude response, maybe you can use that experience as a lesson and learn something from it. perhaps if you rephrased the suggestion? maybe invite a friend to join you for a walk without that walk being in place of a meal? maybe don't offer advice unless asked and learn to deal with the different ways in which we all have to accomodate the consequences of poor choices that others have made (some consequences being unruly children who have not been taught how to behave in public; a person taking up 2 seats instead of 1; the couple who decide to argue in public and use foul language in front of our children; the person who bought an inspection sticker illegally and drives around with blue smoke pouring out of their tailpipe. it is not a perfect world and the sooner you can learn to still live your life, even in the face of annoyances or adversity, the sooner you will be able to stop blaming others for your discomfort.
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 2:39 PM
you don't have to be rude, outright, as a way to respond to a smoker who is bugging you. you can actually ask politely. and you also have the freedom to move away from that smoker. the smoker has a right, too, to enjoy their cigarette. why should one person's preference take precedence over another's?
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 2:43 PM
1.The smoker does NOT have a right to "enjoy" his cigarette near me. If he has the right to give me cancer, I should have the right to hurt him physically, too. Like punch him in the face. It won't kill like cancer will.
2. His preference does not take preference over mine, because a right to clean air is nit a preference, it is a right.
3. I have the freedom to move away from that smoker, but I also need the freedom to stand where I'm standing and NOT HAVE TO move because someone decided to use their freedom to suppress mine. Once you use your freedom to limit other's freedom, it is not a freedom anymore. It is breaking the law.
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 2:49 PM
i have a right not to have to look at an old man in a speedo. if i choose to go where old men in speedos may be hanging out, then i put myself into that publlic domain and should be prepared to deal with it. cigarettes are regulated by the government and any adult has a right to smoke them out in public. a private venue where smoking is disallowed is totally different. clean air is a right? why not tell that to the folks who pollute north jersey? or to the federal transportation authority? why not tackle the trucking companies whose trucks spew out unbreathable fumes? your rights are not more important than someone else's rights, no matter what kind of spin you put on it.
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 3:01 PM
so if i use my right /freedom to vote to make abortion illegal, aren't i using my right/freedom to suppress another person's right/freedom? when i use my freedom to vote to stop child molesters from living next to the day care center, am i also suppressing another's freedom? that argument doesn't hold water. but i am open to reading a valid arguement and maybe have my mind changed.
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 3:05 PM
you want to use your freedom to breath clean air to suppress a cigarette smoker's freedom to smoke on the same patio as you. why is it okay for you to suppress another person's freedom?
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 3:08 PM
Just a thought...I come in peace...how would you, the OP, or others who share the same mentality, feel if someone that you loved very deeply was treated the way that you are stating? If your mother, sister or daughter had to walk thru life with the major problem of being obese, worked constantly trying to lose weight but due to emotional problems, could never fully get into the right mental state to get into shape...can you image how the person that you love most in this world, would feel day in & day out with dirty looks on the train/bus/plane, the laughter & names from passers-by, the shame as people look at you with disgust? There are so many incredibly wonderful & giving people who happen to have weight problems. Often, these are women who put everyone before themselves & have some sort of inability to get through whatever emotional baggage they have & extra weight is just how it manifests itself. It just makes me sick to think that no matter how giving, loving & amazing someone might be, someone like you could throw your evil misgivings on to them with dagger eyes. Obesity just happens to be a problem that we can see...many of us have plenty of probems not visable to the naked eye.
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 3:42 PM
Hey to get back to how to treat obese people for a moment...Dirty looks might make you feel better when you're stuck standing and they are sitting, but I for one am ok with standing. I've got strong legs and I recognize that it's much easier for me to stand. They are not choosing to take up two seats by putting their feet up or their briefcase up. At the moment they have no choice. On the flip side however, I once hired a very obese woman to fill an important position in our company. I decided to look past her weight issues and concentrate on her resume and her ability. Boy was that a mistake. She left her desk only twice every day (bathroom and lunch). Otherwise she required everyone else in the company to come to her. It just wasn't workable. There were a couple of other problems but eventually we had to fire her. Sorry to say that I would quietly keep that experience in mind next time.
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 3:43 PM
Many obese people do work on their feet...just because one woman was like that doesn't mean that most will be.
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 3:50 PM
do you also give young men on the bus dirty looks for not giving up their seat to a woman who is left standing? if not, why not?
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 3:54 PM
there is a skinny dude in my office who has earned the nickname of "lazy carl" because he, too, expects everyone to run around for him. that is more of a personality thing than a size issue, i think.
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 3:56 PM
OP you say no one thinks smokers are disabled and yet there are many people who do smoke or have smoked in the past and have breathing problems and/or cancer because of it and they are disabled. No one did that to them and yet they have the rights of the disabled.
People who are obese, we don't want to be in this possition. And a person can say that no one did that to you, you make that choice yourself. That is not always the case. Bad eating habbits come from many places. How was the person raised. It is very difficult to rise above how a person is raised. What types of trauma has the person had in their life that has led them to eat emotionally or "hide" in food. Seek comfort in food.
There are many out there how seek comfort because of past trauma in many places including sex and drugs and these things too can bring about disabilities but they are still allowed the help they need.
So are you then going to go up to a person who has some sexually transmitted disease and tell them Stop that!. Well we can try. And the media does and they do with weight issues too.
I don't know it just seems as though people are more than willing to kick a person when they are down instead of gently encouraging when they do start to work on themselves.
I can't tell you how many times I have started to diet and just begin to feel better about myself and I am going out for a walk or shopping or.... and someone decideds they need to tell me how ugly or fat or usless I am. And it sets me back.
You are right fat is not a disability but it leads to disabilities and some you can't even see.
I say keep your opinion to yourself.
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 4:13 PM
Go OP Go -
I agree, wholeheartedly, for the fact that I am sick of having to pay for all of your gastric bypass surgeries. You made yourself obese because you could not put down that fat ladden burger, well actually it is because you ordered 2 supersized meals at the drive through and then sit in your car wolfing them down while filled with personal self hatred, sobbing into your already soggy fries, about being so fat.
Then the trip to the doctor baffles you with "what do you mean diet and exercise is the key to weight loss, that is hard work, can't you just cut out part of my stomach and let me hit the reset button".
I work hard for my money, and it makes me sick, that I have to support all the obese people's problems with OVEREATING, and DIABETES, and HEART CONDITIONS.
So yes OP there are times that I want to say to the overweight person in the seat next to me on the plane, "What the hell did I do to deserve ending up sitting next to a hippo who spills over into the next 2 seats".
Signed a healthy, active, hard working, tax paying, health insured individual
Thursday, August 16, 2007, 7:50 PM
ouch. how do you feel about paying for prolonging the life of people who are only "alive" because of machines? or about the babies who would die if extreme measures were not taken and incubators were not paid for? how do you feel about lung transplant recipients who were former smokers, and now they are on the list of transplant patients ahead of someone who just had bad genetics? what about the people who voluntarily take drugs and/or alcoholics who need to go into rehab? what about people who think so highly of themselves and then they have some kind of epiphany and realize they have many faults, too, which sends them into a nervous breakdown that requires treatment with therapy and medications? all of these scenarios are money pits for the people who are not directly affected by them. i don't want to fund certain medical procedures either, but the way to change that is not to call people names or make assumptions about how they got to the place you see them in. get out and vote for those who share your views. write letters to all of your local, state and federal representatives. do something with your opinion besides just sharing it with some stranger with whom you have so much disgust.
Friday, August 17, 2007, 8:09 AM
sounds like the op wants to be able to say whatever she feels about another person, but doesn't want others to share how they feel about her. just remember that the toes you step on today may belong to the ass you're kissing tomorrow.
Friday, August 17, 2007, 8:11 AM
Is the OP disabled due to rudness? I actually hate political correctness too. It is paralysing our society. Nothing is wrong and noone is to blame for anything. But there is no reason to be rude and disagreeable about everything. What a miserable way to spend your life.
4:13 poster Have you ever read the book Intuitive Eating by Evelyn Tribole and Else Resch? I got one at the library and it has helped me enormously to get rid of the diet mentality and the bucket loads of guilt I had about my weight and I have actually started loosing weight too. Just a thought because your post sounded so much like I felt a few weeks ago.
Forgive me! What was I thinking trying to encourage someone? Who am I supposed to be bashing now?
Friday, August 17, 2007, 11:39 AM
i think the op deserves a parking space for the empathy-deficiency she is obviously suffering from.
Friday, August 17, 2007, 11:53 AM
I agree with the OP somewhat...
My stance is why in the last 20 years have people started using emotional problems as an excuse to be obese? Years ago this was not an epidemic, did our grandparents not have any emotional problems? I'm sure they did. So when did emotional problems become an excuse to beomce obese?
I understand it's hard for them, it's hard for anyone that is overweight. But until they take control of their own lives and make a decision to stop the problem it's just going to continue to get worse
Friday, August 17, 2007, 12:27 PM
Right on 7:50!!!! And way to be OP.
Friday, August 17, 2007, 2:00 PM
so you blame drug addicts and alcoholics and co-dependent people, too, for their actions and disruptions without any regard for the underlying cause for these issues? of course nothing is going to get better if a person takes no action. but taking action and succeeding immediately do not always mutually coexist. how do you know that the person who is taking up 2 bus seats hasn't already lost 50 pounds, hasn't already taken action? you cannot know where a person is on their own journey just by looking at them.
Friday, August 17, 2007, 2:15 PM
Are you joking last poster?? ABSOLUTELY they are responsible for their actions! I work in the mental health and drug and alcohol rehab industry and see MANY succeed, but only when they make the decision TO DO SO. They HAVE to stop blaming other people and other things and take responsibility for the CHOICES they make. The same is true for obesity, stop blaming underlying issues and take control of you life and start making good decisions!
I do agree with you that it is possible that they have made great progres already, we don't know just by looking at someone. All I'm saying is that I'm tired of excuses. Make changes, not excuses
Friday, August 17, 2007, 3:34 PM
4:13 here again,
I think there is a vast difference between making excuses and recognizing an underlying issue. There is always a reason why people seek comfort of whatever sort. And without getting to the heart of why a person numbs their feelings and then doing something about it a persons negative actions will continue.
You can't just say we all have to take the blame for everything. Many times in childhood as well as adulthood people make decisions for you and you are left trying to cope with the aftermath. Well I for one have always coped with food. I am learning how to deal with my emotions in a healthy way but there are many who have not come to that point or are at different stages of progress.
I guess the thing that gets me is that if some of you were to see me on the street or a bus or plane, whatever you would be rude to me or think that you had the right to make me feel like I don't deserve to exist and take up space on this planet. And it is that type of attitude that I didn't know how to deal with that have put me in this obese state.
Maybe even worse than that, I come to Peertrainer looking for people who understand and instead find people who are unwilling to look past my body and see who I really am.
I hope that you never have to feel the shame that so many of us have been made to feel. I would never wish pain on a person but I do wish that you could understand.
And thank you 11:39 I have never looked at that book but I will try to get me a copy. Thank you for caring. It means a lot.
Saturday, August 18, 2007, 12:11 AM
OK everyone. I showed up at community tonight to be inspired. Now I realize, this is just the wrong day to visit. To read a few of the posts, I can see how negative it is going. Let's remember we are all human and hopefully compassionate. I think we are all here to better our selves. All the negative thinking hurts no one but the person who thinks it. Just remember how you feel when you have those negative thoughts vs. when you are happy.
Inspired? Tomorrow morning on my run, I will run 1 extra mile and meditate on the positve. We can all count our blessings, and just doing something nice for someone each day, is a good start on the right path.
Saturday, August 18, 2007, 12:38 AM
the reasons behind "why" the op is a bitch don't matter to me.
Monday, August 20, 2007, 9:08 AM
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