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bitter, angry and clinging to religion and or guns?

anyone out there agree with obama?

Sat. Apr 12, 9:48pm

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hhmmmm..

do we agree to the comments taken out of context??? No, but I am afraid that many americans are ridiculously dogmatic and that their knee jerk response does get as basic as what Obama is alluding to. How else could this "war on terrorism" ever have gotten this far, and how could McCain even be considered reputable when he makes comments like "I will follow Bin Laden to the gates of hell".

Saturday, April 12, 2008, 10:15 PM

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Whether or not they were taken out of context doesn't answer the underlying hate that Obama has for his fellow americans. He's the prototype liberal intellect - the old DEMOCRAT if you will. He can't even hide his condescension, though he makes a good effort. At least Hilary is looking down on you and doesn't pretend to not look down on you. Obama is a slickster but as Emerson said, who you are speaks so loudly, I can't hear what you're saying.

Sunday, April 13, 2008, 8:47 AM

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"underlying hate for his fellow americans"

For Fu@#! sake! I have an underlying hate for most politicians, but I do not see how you can label him as a hater for the things he has said so far. Might you have an underlying hate for certain ethnic backgrounds? Quite an assumption on my part huh? That's what you sound like taken out of context.

Sunday, April 13, 2008, 1:20 PM

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I think disdain is a better word. And it is not just Obama- most liberals like him think they are better and smarter than everyone else. It is not a color thing, it is a class thing.

Sunday, April 13, 2008, 2:11 PM

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Simmer down kids

Well, I think the liberals are less likely to believe the current administrations propaganda and fear fueling rhetoric...they may not be better, but they are definitely smarter! What class does the Right Wing , Religious Fanatic belong to anyway? Really, it's pretty sad that the extremes that we are offered make us choose lesser of evils. No one is really representing most of America. If the current admin is...pretty scary

Sunday, April 13, 2008, 2:29 PM

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Hillary is going to feast on Obama's carcass. And I love her for that. You need a president who is ruthless, not some pansy who can barely pick up a bowling bowl. The other upside to Hillary is that she won't forget stuff like McCain would.

Monday, April 14, 2008, 7:28 AM

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Afraid to see the truth...

I think Obama was right in saying what he did. No one wants to admit that American prosperity has indeed opened a gap between rich and poor and that those on the lower end of the spectrum are left feeling empty and angry. To admit to this gap would mean to admit to your own part in it and your unwillingness to do anything to change it because you are comfortable in your own life.

Obama makes white Americans uncomfortable because he sees through the anger of minorities and phrases it so that everyone can understand the problem. That breeds contempt. Obama makes blacks uncomfortable because he makes them face their own shortcomings as a people and feel guilty for having let the legacy and momentum of the Civil Rights Movement slip.

Hillary has nothing in common with the average American. Other than the fact that she is a woman, she cannot relate to most anything that the average American has faced. Of all the candidates, Obama is the only one who knows what it's like to be a minority, to work your way up from the bottom rung of the ladder, and how to maintain your dignity and poise while doing so. Don't hate him for showing you your own shortcomings. His call for change is necessary in order for this country to move forward.

I fear if we do not face these issues of race, rich/poor, and some other fundamental issues tugging at the seams of our society, we will lose the meaning of what it truly means to be American.

Monday, April 14, 2008, 8:28 AM

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8:28, amen to that. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I am a white woman who would have voted for Hilary, but I saw the ugly side of her and Bill. You are right that she is not in contact with middle class america. Now I am changing my vote to Obama. I think he is aware of what low/middle class america needs and hopefully he can change the system.

Monday, April 14, 2008, 10:32 AM

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As an aside, I attended a conference where Obama's education advisor was the keynote speaker.

As I sat and listened to her deplorable statistics about the state of education in the U.S. (which, coincidentally 3 of the OTHER conference speakers (not affliated with Obama) chose as their topics)--I came to only 1 conclusion. The next president, no matter who he or she is, MUST MAKE EDUCATION A PRIORITY.

It is terrible to hear that the U.S. has dropped from among the top 5 most educated countries in the world to around 23 or 24 in the world when it comes to English and MATH. For all of our pompous self-promotion as a country, we are letting the rug slip out from under us when it comes to educating our young people. As many educators agree--"No Child Left Behind" is more like "No child's behind left"....

In my opinon, nothing we do as a nation will matter (whether it's in war, our economy, politics or anything else) if we do not do something about the dire situation of our K-12 education.

We won't be able to compete globally, much less locally, if we can't properly teach our children the basics and re-think how we've educated the people living and working in the U.S. These days, a bachelor's degree has in many ways become the High School diploma of the past-- and in states with really bad economy (and trust me, I live in one--the amount of closing factories and foreclosure is astounding), we are feeling the crunch.

There is a rush of people returning to school because they realize that if they don't get re-trained, they WON'T have a job. Even getting into the military requires a person to take a test, and if you can't cut it, they won't take you either....

So, after all that is said and done, I think that the most critical issue may not be all of the willy-nilly nit-picking of sound bites and grand standing... We as voters need to examine how our future president will be handling education--we can no longer sit on the sidelines watching with curious interest... It's got to be a priority or globally or we will no longer be able to compete.

Monday, April 14, 2008, 12:12 PM

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Regarding my post above, (12:12) this is not to say that I have decided on exactly who will get my vote. I am still waiting to see what happens, but in the meantime, I think it's valuable to look at how the different candidates view their policies in education.

Monday, April 14, 2008, 12:17 PM

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WELL SAID 8:28

Could not agree more. I also agree with the emerging of the Ugly Clintons. They will tear down the Democratic party in no time. McCain won't have to lift a finger.
It is sickening that Billy and Company are pandering to the religious right. Do we really believe that spirituality has played a major role in their game? Not that it should, but the are sure looking like a bunch of phonies.

The Gov in California is now shutting down schools n LA, education is falling, but then again, sit and talk to some seniors about the medications they forgo because they can not make the copays. Gee...maybe some of the money we are using to front the big War profiteers could be spent a little wiser.

Monday, April 14, 2008, 2:22 PM

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I agree with his "outrageous" comments.

Why should Americans be ashamed to be bitter? Why do we have to pretend everything is fine?

Everything is not fine.

I'll take Obama over Clinton or McCain any day. He is refreshingly candid about America's current situation. He handles problems with grace and thought. I feel like I can trust him with my future. This is why my vote in the Pennsylvania Primary is his.

Link

Monday, April 14, 2008, 10:45 PM

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7:28 said "The other upside to Hillary is that she won't forget stuff like McCain would. "

Stuff like being "under fire" in Bosnia??

Monday, April 14, 2008, 10:47 PM

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Even not taken out of context I agree 100% with that statement about many... if not most republicans. But then I live in a "Red" state so maybe in a different state people would behave a bit more rationally.

Tuesday, April 15, 2008, 9:30 AM

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I am sick and tired of "racism" being the problem holding back the black community. Has it been tough for them- of course. But almost every single other ethnic group in the country has made huge progress, often under great pressure, prejudice etc. Even black people who immigrate directly from Africa are doing great. Yet the "african-americans" keep whining and blaming everyone else. I'm so sick of the excuses.

Tuesday, April 15, 2008, 9:33 AM

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0933
I'm sure you understand what they have gone through. Sure. If you were that "understanding" you have thought about your post with more sensitivity. The stereotype you voice about the "whining" implies that most of them are.
Please don't vote. You are an embarrassment.

Tuesday, April 15, 2008, 4:06 PM

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I have a disdain for a lot of my fellow Americans as well, but that doesn't mean that I cannot feel passionate about this country and about improving it (and also the living conditions of those for whom I have a certain disdain, hoping that that will improve THEM as well...).

Patriotism doesn't mean you have to love your country no matter what. Patriotism can also mean that you realize what a s***hole your country has become, and wanting to make it nice and shiny again, regardless of the effort it will take.

Tuesday, April 15, 2008, 5:30 PM

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I think 9:33 has a point. As the daughter of parents who literally risked their lives to come to this country, I understand the point of view. they did not speak a word of english, no money. they built a business, raised a family, employ people. after this experience, we look at those who choose to complain as having made the wrong choice. this has nothing to do with voting or politics or anything. do you choose to complain or do you choose to do something. the latter is much harder.

Tuesday, April 15, 2008, 5:38 PM

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Of course everyone has a responsibility

to not play the victim and get off their butt and make things happen, but to mention African Americans that "whine" is nothing if not racist. How many do you actually know well enough to discuss the subject of oppression with? How many making this racist comment have really listened to some of the experiences that these people have had? I have worked side by side with several idiots that have used the "N" word in the workplace, and have immediately accused fellow employees (that just happened to be African American 0as soon as something of theirs turns up missing. I would be thrilled if our nation has progressed on this topic, but I don't think so.

Tuesday, April 15, 2008, 9:55 PM

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The socio economic problems that tend to plague the african american community are brought about by the way their ethnic group was treated for so long.

My ethnic group (non white) was never treated that bad, so it's easy for my people to thrive in the US

Tuesday, April 15, 2008, 10:49 PM

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To 9:33...8:28 here

As a bi-racial female who has grown up in the US and in Europe, I can say that racism is alive and well in the US. It may not be as overt as it used to be with separate bathrooms and water fountains, but it comes through in other ways. The way people will not look you in the eye, the exclusion from certain parts of society because of your skin color (though no one ever comes right out and says it), the off-handed comments and jokes about African-Americans (GOP Rep. Davis calling Obama a "boy" is a throw back to plantation slaves - black men were never acknowledged by whites as men and thus called boys to remind them "of their place").

Racism, is not just about actions, it's a mindset. You try growing up in a country that once used your people for slave labor. You try getting ahead at work when there are people who have never had to deal with a "colored" person and ask stupid questions about our hair or make comments about our intelligence.

Racism is also an economic issue. Whites (both of Anglo descent and immigrants of other nations) have had an advantage because they have had more opportunities to make money, save, and pass on that wealth to other generations. African-Americans couldn't even vote until the 1960s. And you think you are going to erase years of inequality in less than 50 years? In your dreams!

To your point about whining, there is a saying "Blacks are likes crabs in a bucket - the minute one tries to climb out, the rest pull him back in." It's somewhat true. But what holds African-Americans back is fear of the unknown. Success breeds fear because you do not know what to do with it - we have to teach our children how to deal with money, stress, the pressures that come with success. These are lessons that other ethnicities have already learned. African-Americans are not perfect, but look around. There's a whole generation coming up of young people who don't have the burden of slavery around their neck. And they are thriving. Dr. Nat Irivin has called them Thrivals. And I am proud of them - making strides in education, the business world, working to make this world a better place and more color-blind.

There are parts of the African-American culture I abhor - rap music, the degrading of our women, and the focus on material wealth. Yet there are aspects of it I love - our close family bonds, the ability to survive against all odds, and a spiritual foundation that is ingrained in our culture. We have a rich and varied history and culture - one that I am proud of. My other half is German. Am I to hang my head in shame because of the Nazis forever? No! Learn from it, move on, and make the best of it. Germans have a rich heritage as well - architecture, music, art, poetry. And I embrace both sides.

Your comments were insensitive, rude, and out of line. It's people like you that Barack Obama has this uphill battle against. I hope you reconsider your comments and take a moment to look at the issue from another angle.

Link

Wednesday, April 16, 2008, 3:21 AM

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I have had the opportunity to experience race relations in this country from both sides. As a white woman I had no idea how privledged my upbringing was until I married a black man. I see racism nearly every day.
We were travelling on vacation last summer and had a coupon for a hotel room. It was nearly 11 PM and I called to make sure they had rooms available. My husband walked in to register and was told there were no rooms left. He came back to the car and told me, I went in alone and was told yes, trhey had rooms available. We didnn't stay.

Things like that happen nearly every day. Posts on this thread obviously show we have a long way to go in healing the scars (both old and new) of racism.

Wednesday, April 16, 2008, 9:57 AM

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Just as long as he beats Hillary..I dont really care.

Wednesday, April 16, 2008, 3:22 PM

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so funny to hear the excuses for the bad behavior prevalent in the black community. It is always an excuse. I wouldn't deny for one minute that problems still exist. But the black community needs to strongly consider the extent to which they bring some of the negative reaction on themselves.

Wednesday, April 16, 2008, 8:18 PM

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to 8:18

I think the thread is done. Thank you for validating that racism is still thriving in America. You are a donkey's butt.

Thursday, April 17, 2008, 1:15 AM

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Been thinking...

This thread has really got me thinking...racism has always existed in some form or another. Be it against African-Americans, Asians, Hispanics, Native Americans, Indians, Jews, Shiite Muslims...you get my drift. Racism is spawned by fear of the unknown. When people are unfamiliar with something, either their first reaction is to learn more about it and then make a decision, or to fear it. Unfortunately most people choose the latter - and that fear turns into hate, condemnation, and oppression. It's really a sad cycle.

So until we learn to view each other for who we really are rather than fear the unknown, racism will always exist. How we deal with it is going to determine our outcome and more specifically the future of America and many other nations. My hope is for more people to overcome their fears and reach out to one another - you might learn something new!

Thursday, April 17, 2008, 3:09 AM

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