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I would like your opinion on Overpopulation and the Environment
Do you think overpopulation is an issue in today's world or the world of the future generations? I'm nuetral, more or less, on this point, but am curious as to whether anyone here has thought about this, and/or think it bears further consideration.
Wed. Apr 23, 12:25pm
Shut down the borders and get the illegals out of USA and it wouldn't be a problem any more!
Wednesday, April 23, 2008, 2:52 PM
Not only do I agree with the previous poster, but I'd like to see adoption of children from other countries stopped. It sounds harsh, but I'd rather the kids in this country get adopted first!
Wednesday, April 23, 2008, 3:21 PM
Yay China and your one-child-per-family stance.
Boo India, for taking pride in surpassing the population of China a few years ago.
Wednesday, April 23, 2008, 3:51 PM
The OP is refering to the world population in general, not just in the US. It actually makes me sad to think how the world's population is growing at an increasing rate and our natural resources at the same time are depleting. Also, people nowadays still don't adopt the concept of going green to save resources for the next generation, which will also cut down on energy used to reduce global warming.
Wednesday, April 23, 2008, 3:53 PM
3:53--the OP asked for people's opinion and we gave it to them! Who cares if it's "in general" or just France, or USA. Save our resources by shutting down your computer!
Wednesday, April 23, 2008, 3:55 PM
3:21---DITTO DITTO DITTO
Wednesday, April 23, 2008, 3:56 PM
Uh I may be using the computer right now...but I do a lot more than most people to save resources, such as taking public transportation, walking, eating locally grown produce, not eating meat (except seafood), and I don't have an iPod or excess technology besides the computer. The reason why I said the OP is refering to "in general" is because like what one poster said to shut down the border and get the illegals out or the other said to adopt kids in the US first-- that won't solve anything.
Wednesday, April 23, 2008, 4:24 PM
really? you don't think that will solve the US problems? It sure will! where do we start? Less people in this country will cut down on our energy crisis here in the US. We'll import less oil because we'll have less drivers. Have you seen the number of illegals living in the US? Not to mention they are not paying taxes and they are using our resources like our roads and we're having to pay higher gas tax and higher property tax because more people are using them than paying for them. And by having DOT replace and repair roads, they are loading up our landfills with the debris from the roads torn up. And then there's immigrants who are using our money resources because they don't speak English--chewing up our tax dollars in the school system so they can take classes like "English as a second language."--remember they aren't paying in taxes but we sure are paying it! Gosh, and how about our police and law enforcement resources for tracking illegals down and the drug busts! I could go on and on.
I do my fair share, plant my own garden, have over 20 fruit trees, have a total of 400 trees, recycle and reuse just about everything, hypermile and have a fuel efficient car. But I am one small person in this world and tired of seeing illegals in this country taking our resources and getting handouts from my wallet.
Wednesday, April 23, 2008, 5:06 PM
I think the world is overpopulated. I think there is a lot we can do to save resources and conserve but I think there may be too many people on this globe to sustain everyone. I think natural systems are going to take care of this soon though. My theory is that over the next several hundred years famine and disease will greatly reduce the population size. Not that I think that's a good thing. I think it's just the nature's way of keeping everything in balance.
Every 7 years or so the farm I grew up on would become overpopulated with voles. Then a disease would spread though the vole population and it would get back down to a resonable size. I think the same thing might happen with humans soon.
Wednesday, April 23, 2008, 5:18 PM
Shutting down the boarders and pushing people out of the US might temporarily solve overpopulation problems in the US, but pushing people out into an over crowded world isn't going to solve anything in the long run. People in the US just won't be able to see the problem.
Wednesday, April 23, 2008, 5:23 PM
I love public forum psuedo-informed bigots. Amazing. You really think shutting down the border will solve the nation's problems? You are ill informed to say the least. I am a resident of Arizona and see the daily struggles of the immagrant. Am I bitter they gain access to our social reform systems, yes, and does it worry me that "they" may not live up to the laws of the United States, absolutely, however America's decay is from the inside... not the outside. We, "legals" are killing each other and scamming the system and have been for a longer period of time than Mexico has been an issue.
As for adoption, an American orphan is definately in a better position, and has many more opprotunities than an orphan from overseas, why not give them an opprotunity to live happily, like yourself?
On the topic of GLOBAL over population, it is a pity the world of tomorrow is being devistated today. But it is a long a more devistating history that is only being repeated as more people struggle for their peice of the Earth.
Wednesday, April 23, 2008, 5:32 PM
So let's say for arguments sake, that we get them 'dern foreigners" out of here. What then? The problem is an exponential one and will keep increasing with the amount of children we have. Is there anything to do in the mean time or do we wait for the disease and the famine to hit?
Wednesday, April 23, 2008, 5:46 PM
Our greatest evolutionary feature will be our downfall - our giant brains. We use these brains to figure out how to take over the globe, overcome diseses that normally keep population in control, and that will be what kills us all.
what is sad is that we will bring down millions of other organisms with us.
Wednesday, April 23, 2008, 6:14 PM
I'm glad others see my point. Yes, kicking the illegals out will lead to less population here in the US....but there is a global community out there. We can't just think about ourselves, but the rest of the world who will greatly suffer because they don't have the resources when disaster from the effects of global warming strikes.
Wednesday, April 23, 2008, 7:03 PM
To answer the OP's original question, I absolutely believe overpopulation is an issue that's not talked about enough. Do you think Mother Nature sees nation's borders? No! This is a global problem, not a problem in just the US. Every gov't should be doing their part to slow population growth and I applaud China for their 1 child policy. Eventually all gov'ts will have to take this issue seriously before Mother Nature does it for them. (bubonic plague anyone?)
I'm taking personal responsibility and my husband and I decided not to have children. I know many women who did not bear children. We're doing our part in our little corner of the world. (go birth control!)
Wednesday, April 23, 2008, 8:24 PM
Overpopulation can be compared to cancer cells. Cancer cells and people keep taking from their host environment until the host dies.
Thursday, April 24, 2008, 9:45 AM
8:24, natural selection at work!
Thursday, April 24, 2008, 10:26 AM
How can you people possible applaud the Chinese government's one-child policy, which results in the abortion, infanticide and/or abandonment of millions of baby girls per year?
Thursday, April 24, 2008, 10:35 AM
If the Chinese government's policy on slowing the population growth isn't the best way to deal with the issue, what would 10:35 or anyone else suggest instead? The reason I've asked about this subject is that it seems like the next logical step in the effort to help the environment and I've heard so very little discussion about it.
I do appreciate the insightful responses and opinions.
Thursday, April 24, 2008, 11:50 AM
I did want to agree with 10:35 also. Those are valid issues with China's policy, along with some other issues that they are dealing with. With the slower population growth, there also aren't as many people around that are able to take care of the elderly in that country. And the unequal distribution of the sexes means that there aren't as many possibilities for marriage for the males.
But they have at least acknowledged the problem and have at least tried to make a difference.
Thursday, April 24, 2008, 11:55 AM
From 3:51 to 10:35
1) I don't think abortion is bad or irresponsible, so that doesn't bother me.
2) Killing and abandoning baby girls has always disturbed me, but I believe that disgusting practice pre-dates the population control policies. Now if they were murdering baby boys as well as girls, then your point would be more valid.
Thursday, April 24, 2008, 3:02 PM
the reality is that developed nations have lower birth rates. look at Europe. So as India and China mature, the people will breed less to enjoy their money and bourgeois decadence. China's Obama will then be waiting to redeem their souls and guilt.
Thursday, April 24, 2008, 3:38 PM
My opinion is that people aren't inherently bad, but that every person naturally wants (and should have) a roof over his or her head and enough food in his or her stomach, and a warm place to sleep. And there are just so many of us, that if everyone has these basic things, then other species and the environment in general is going to suffer.
When I formed this opinion, I asked myself, "What can I do to make this not happen?" I do not have any children, adopted or otherwise. I do not eat meat, which is very inefficient and harmful to the environment compared to eating vegetarian. I moved to a place with solar panels for electricity. I got a bike to ride to work. It's my opinion, which makes it my responsibility to live as sustainably as possible. I can't control what people in India or China do, but I absolutely can control what I do.
Thursday, April 24, 2008, 6:06 PM
6:06... How is eating meat "inefficent"? I understand it is your opinion but there is a real necessity to the population control that comes with slaughtering of animals for food. Besides if everyone ate vegetarian the thoery is that global warming would actually increase and famine would be more widespead because of the lack of farmland and crops. Look at India for an example, starving people everywhere, and wild cattle roaming the street in mass population. I understand it is in their religion to not eat meat, but would you rather starve to death and be over run by animals?
Friday, April 25, 2008, 1:13 AM
One of the PP said mother nature would take care of it, eventually. I believe that, too. No matter what we do, there is a natural order to things.
Blaming immigrants for our issues? You can't focus on a tiny issue and think that is the root of all of the US's problems. Distraction. "Hey, look, our economy is failing! It's the Jewish people's fault!!" Sound familiar? (not that they were immigrants, but they were used as a distraction to get people away from what was really going on).
Nearly all of our families were immigrants (unless you are full-blooded native american). Remember? Maybe we can all focus on being good to each other no matter where we are from. Maybe that would help solve the world's issues. Treat everyone well. We are ALL people on the same planet.
Friday, April 25, 2008, 10:27 AM
This is in response to 1:13 am.
I think IF the cows were somehow roaming wild and breeding...well like people...then that would be a valid point. The problem is that the population of the cattle is firmly under control by the cattle industry and they operate on basic supply and demand principles. There is a lot of demand by the fast food society, so they have lots of cows and to feed them they need a lot of land and that is how the forests and such are being torn down to create the grazing areas for the cattle. And to grow the corn to feed the people and the cows that in turn feed the people.
Also, I was under this misconception earlier also but folks in India do eat meat, they just don't eat cows.
Please correct if any of these facts are inaccurate.
Friday, April 25, 2008, 12:15 PM
Friday, April 25, 2008, 12:16 PM
I'm not American but I have to say I am shocked on a lot of poster's attitudes towards people from other countries entering yours. Shut down the borders? Stop adopting children from other countries? Are you kidding me?
I'm even more surprised that no one else has said anything thus far.
Every once in a while a certain issue comes up on PT and I get a huge reality check on how different the mindset is just south of the border. Shocking.
Friday, April 25, 2008, 2:45 PM
I am an American and I am shocked by some of these responses. This is 7:03 by the way.
Friday, April 25, 2008, 2:49 PM
PP here again.
Okay so I'm relieved to see that I must have scrolled past a few posts. 5:32, 10:35, and the others I missed I apologize.
I actually had to go back and re-read parts of the thread. I really can't even believe people think this way! Has anyone ever heard the term "dumpster baby"? You guys seem to talk an awful lot about terror, if the U.S. adopted China's system we'd all be surrounded by it.
Friday, April 25, 2008, 2:49 PM
So I'm 2:45, and I also wrote the 2:49 post.
Sorry about the confusion.
7:03 - I agree with you entirely.
I also didn't mean to insult the nation as a whole. That's equally wrong of me. I've just never encountered the likes of those types of comments in my own country and at the beginning of this post it seemed like absolutely everyone agreed!
Friday, April 25, 2008, 2:52 PM
Not sure what OP means but I'm the one that originally asked the question.
As far as those earlier responses go about closing the borders, I 100% do not agree with them but I didn't see how discussing that would have helped the subject of the thread stay on task. Usually I've noticed that with "those folks" that whole heartedly believe items like that, it isn't of any use trying to discuss opposing viewpoints because they aren't rational in the first place.
Friday, April 25, 2008, 3:45 PM
I agree. Where do you start when people use such pre-programed, brain-washed, irrational FOXnews opinions? How do we even begin to have a logical debate when someone comes to the table full of hate instead of knowledge?
Friday, April 25, 2008, 4:07 PM
Like a previous poster said, its established that 1st world countires have lower birthrates than third world countires. It is also established that impoverished americans have more children than middle class/wealthy americans in general. I suppose I think less about overpopulation, and more about equitable distribution of necessary resources. I think access to adequate healthcare in the US regardless of income would do more halt overpopulation than anything. I also think that people don't mix in america -- all the rich white folk live together and shove the impoverished folk off into trailer parks on flood plains - whether intentional or not. It amazes me sometimes that compassionate liberals that want to save the world aren't willing to live next door or even talk to those that they supposedly want to save.
I also take offense to the comment about how opinions in the south differ so much. I'm a southerner and I don't think much differently than you do. However, it took a college education and moving 2000 miles from home to have access to the same tools you have to live your vegetarian, low-impact life. (Food co-ops, recyling bins picked up by the city, bike lanes, trails, and bus routes maintained by the city). I would argue that my grandmother, who meticulously saved and reused every breadbag, who ate tomatoes with salt on them for lunch fresh from her garden, who wore the same sweater to collect the clothes off the line for 60 years, was as much an environmentalist as anyone -- she just didn't read as much about it as you may have studied.
Friday, April 25, 2008, 6:06 PM
I am horrified at some of the comments posted here! It's no wonder everyone in the world seems to hate Americans. I whole heartedly agreed with you, 10:27, 4:24 and 5:18. There will be no quick or easy fixes, especially with the kinds of tactics that are being mentioned here. You can't scapegoat immigrants for everything. Everybody is contributing to consumption and depletion of natural resources and EVERYBODY needs to take responsibility for their daily actions (personal and political). Either that or like a few posters have mentioned nature will eventually take care of itself.
Saturday, April 26, 2008, 2:47 AM
To 1:13 am
Read it and learn it. If you become vegetarian, not only would you be doing your part to slow down global warming, you'll probably lose some weight along the way.
Saturday, April 26, 2008, 2:57 AM
Sorry it's taken me a while to get back to this thread. Re the inefficiency of eating meat, I was indeed referring to the issues that the previous poster's link discusses. That link goes to the NYT, which you have to register for to access, but the part that addresses what I was referring to is this:
"about two to five times more grain is required to produce the same amount of calories through livestock as through direct grain consumption, according to Rosamond Naylor, an associate professor of economics at Stanford University. It is as much as 10 times more in the case of grain-fed beef in the United States."
Now, if the meat I was talking about had been deer -- well yes, because we have already done away with most of the predators, we could be up to our ears in deer if we didn't eat some. But cattle, pigs, and chickens are not the free-ranging aurochs and wild boars of yore. Most of what we eat is confined, crowded, and fed on rich grains so that it will come to market quickly. I know that these are not the exact grains people eat -- feed corn isn't as good as human food corn! -- but the land used to grow grain for cattle could be used to grow food for people. For the environmental cost of a pound of meat, you could have 10 pounds of wheat, soy, corn or whatever.
Saturday, April 26, 2008, 4:30 AM
To sum up April 25 6:06 response,
You think education is the way to go?
Saturday, April 26, 2008, 11:56 AM
OP -- I am not saying that education is the way to go. I am saying that different classes of people, different regions of the world, have different tools to combat overpopulation.
Some posters are focusing on the fact that cattle eat a lot. The theory goes that if everyone were a vegetarian, then we would have more resources, so maybe the earth could support having more people. I'm just saying that there are regions of the US where there is less access to fresh produce, especially for poor people. These regions typically include inner-city communities, and the central, rural United States. Being vegetarian isn't the best option for the environment in every case.
I don't see any reason why Louisiannans shouldn't eat crawfish , or Texans shouldn't eat cattle homegrown on their own family ranch. Considering the costs of fuel to the environment, the "local" eating probably does more for the earth than eating a vegetarian diet that includes bananas from Ecuador.
But, if your question is about overpopulation, then I think global healthcare in the US would go a long way. In other parts of the world, healthcare would be a good start, along with a higher standard of living. Though, how ironic that a family of 4 in the US uses way more resources than a family of 10 in Africa or India.
Overpopulation is often a threat to health, it is the abuse of resources that will lead to food scarcity and a damaged earth.
Monday, April 28, 2008, 4:51 PM
I appreciate you taking the time to respond to this! I didn't mean to come across as putting words into your mouth, I was trying to get to the main jist of things. Thank you!
Monday, April 28, 2008, 5:16 PM
sustainability, and the inefficiency of meat
Not all poor people with inadequate access to food live in cities, not even in the United States. If we are talking about sustainability, this is a global problem right now.
Check out this article in the NYT about the current shortage of fertilizer, which I someone mentioned as a US issue in another thread as well. This is not only a shortage in the US, as the article discusses.
"The demand for fertilizer has been driven by a confluence of events, including population growth, shrinking world grain stocks and the appetite for corn and palm oil to make biofuel. But experts say the biggest factor has been the growing demand for food, especially meat, in the developing world."
"Initially, much of the increased production of fertilizer went to grains like wheat and rice that served as the foundation of a basic diet. But recently, with world economic growth at a brisk 5 percent a year, hundreds of millions of people began earning enough money to buy more meat from animals fattened with grains. "
In many countries, fertilizers made from petrochemicals are what stands between people and starvation. You might think (and be right) that these are not organic things to be using, but as the article points out, 1 pound of chemical fertilizer has more nutrients than 100 pounds of manure. So recycling the droppings of animals raised to be eaten is not going to work.
Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 8:41 AM
right now we could use more people in the US to buy the houses that are sitting on the market.
Thursday, May 22, 2008, 9:37 PM
Or take down the house we don't need and go back to 'au natural'.
Friday, May 23, 2008, 2:05 PM
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