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I think there has been a real erosion of the gains made by women in the 70's and the 80's. Fashions for young women are bizarely provocative, young women seem more likely to pursue motherhood than career in their twenties, women leaders in business and politics are perceived as evil ...

Sat. Sep 30, 1:04pm

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yes, there seems to be a revived cult of motherhood

Saturday, September 30, 2006, 1:06 PM

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Nobody makes young women wear those provocative outfits, they are just like a bunch of sheep and follow the fashion. I think it is sad.......

Saturday, September 30, 2006, 1:18 PM

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What gains? I feel like I was forced out to wark to make ends meet! You are rightit is much worse for women today! We were better off in the 60's. When woman went to work they truly choose it they weren't forced out to to economics. It was acceptable to be a homemaker. By the way! I am an educated careere woman.

Saturday, September 30, 2006, 1:40 PM

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I'm not one of those fly-off-the-handle types (at least I try not to be), so I'd like some clarification before I start what might end up being World War III.
1:04pm - Is pursuing motherhood a bad thing? Why does she have to pursue a career first? She'll either have to abandon it later or sacrifice time with her children to continue it.
1:06pm - a cult? I hope you're joking.
1:40pm - Is it NOT acceptable to be a hommaker now?

Saturday, September 30, 2006, 2:02 PM

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If women are CHOOSING motherhood in their twenties, that is not a step backwards, since it is due to CHOICE and not societal expectations (and it is hardly a "cult"-these kids are our future and we damn well better make sure they get the best chance possible to be good human beings instead of a bunch of selfish entitlement-minded kids who reaped the benefits of their working moms' guilt with a truckload of material possessions; and I certainly don't think this is true of all working moms, but certainly it can be said many of todays kids get a hell of alot for doing very little) , Choice is what the sixties was all about. I CHOSE to be a stay at home mom in my 30's because I only have one chance with my kids, I don't want daycare or non-family member raising them, and I recognize women now have the freedom to start or restart their careers in their 40's, 50's or beyond. This choice means I shop garage sales and thrift shops, clip coupons and eat out infrequently. No big screen tv here- we live much like I did growing up in the sixties-one vehicle, older home, and distinguising between wants and needs.

I agree with the sexual and clothing issues; women are objectified even more these days, and much of it is their own doing. They have given their choices over to the media and ad images, and still feel much of their self-worth lies in how appealing men
(most who have no interest in a relationship beyond sex so why bother?) find them physically. How many women here on PT do this (diet/exercise) to increase their appeal to the opposite sex as opposed to trying to be strong healthy women
who will retain good habits as they age?

As far as women leaders being perceived as evil, unfortunely much of that is media too.
There are many highly respected female politicians and CEO's (Meg Whitman of ebay has never been demonized like Carly Fiorina, Maria Shriver never receives the critisism Hillary does and she is just as active as Hillary was during Clinton years) , we just don't hear enough about them. It is extreme groups hiding behind thier religion and cowards that use sex against high powered women since they don't have much else as ammunition.

Women be strong and true to yourselves-that is the real message of being liberated.

Saturday, September 30, 2006, 2:27 PM

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Did anyone see the dave chapelle show where he talked about women who dress like hookers? It went something like:
"Yes, I know that just because you dress like a hooker doesn't mean you ARE a hooker, but you can understand my confusion. You're wearing a hooker's uniform! It's like if I were wearing a police uniform and then got annoyed because you thought I was a police officer!"

Funny!

Saturday, September 30, 2006, 3:07 PM

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I also see nothing wrong with choosing motherhood over career. At this point (single and 25) I'm all about career. I have little desire to have children, but won't rule it out.

However, I don't think many young women "choose" motherhood. I think alot of them are stupid enough to get knocked up- either out of carelessness, or because of loneliness (If I have a baby, they'll love me unconditionally, or If I have a baby he'll stay with me).

My personal opinion is that too many mothers out there were so busy fighting for rights they forgot to teach their daughters well. My mother taught me not to dress like a whore, not to let men hit me, that I can do whatever I set my mind to. If more mothers did this instead of focusing on "rights" I think women would be better off...

Saturday, September 30, 2006, 7:10 PM

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I think part of the shift is because feminists demeaned the feminine. Being sexy, being womanly, being girly, being soft was all frowned upon, and women were encouraged to go out there and work like men and be just like men. But I think there is *generally* an innate desire to be feminine, and no one taught them how. So in an effort to be feminine, they have children, or dress promiscuous, failing to find or understand femininity.

Saturday, September 30, 2006, 7:45 PM

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All of this has one thing in common, the MEDIA. Women can choose whatever they want. Nothing wrong with staying home and raising the kids. After all they are your kids and if you can afford it everyone is better off. Who wants somebody else's ideas, morals and influence over your children? If you paid more attention there is a huge amount of women well into their 30's having babies and most are in the position to be able to stay home. There have always been and always will be promiscuous kids its just more open now. Isn't it funny that most feminists are also the liberals who complain about everything.

Sunday, October 01, 2006, 2:36 AM

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Gee Most of the woman making these comments want woman to have true freedom. They want the right to stay home or work. Whst you doesn't make you equal:. it is howhow you are treated that makes you equal. This is America. Woman can make their own chioces what they want to do.

Sunday, October 01, 2006, 9:32 AM

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Sorry for the misspelling errors !

Sunday, October 01, 2006, 9:33 AM

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About the "cult of motherhood" -- oh yeah, I know what you mean!

Now, I support anyone's right to have a child if they want a child and have some plan of how to support the kid -- married or unmarried, gay or straight, planned or unplanned, parenthood can be great. I work in a field where women are often marginalized professionally for having children, and I make an effort to encourage and mentor younger women who want kids.

But as a nonparent, I think that if you are in the cult you don't SEE the cult. To those of us on the outside of it who have never wanted kids (and therefore everyone is probably better off if we don't have them, right?), it would be nice to have equal respect for that choice. Instead, the more cult-ic folks of the parenthood cult feel quite free to harangue us about how "selfish" we are, and how the only real contribution worth making to society is reproduction, etc. If you haven't come across these people and don't know what I'm talking about, you are SO lucky!

Sunday, October 01, 2006, 3:32 PM

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I believe the best contribution a person with the ability to reproduce can make is to recognize and be honest enough about their ability and desire to parent Bless all those with the integrity and courage to admit, you know what, it's not for me.....now if we could just get the celebrities to quit focusing on the international vanity adoptions and shine the light on the thousands of foster children in our own country who need a loving home.

Sunday, October 01, 2006, 4:45 PM

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Amen, sister , to the last two posters!

Sunday, October 01, 2006, 8:44 PM

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it's not just celebrities who adopt children from overseas.

Monday, October 02, 2006, 8:53 AM

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When I was in my early 20s I was the epitomy of the working woman feminist movement. I actually baraded my mother in law when she told me that I would need to quit my job once I had kids, that a woman shouldn't be expected to give up her career for her kids and that we can have it all and that if the husband wants someone to stay home with the kids then he can do it and she can stay home. Then something happened... I had my son. I was now 23 and wanted nothing but to stay home and be with him. I still had my good job and my degree. I still had my career advancement opportunities but I didn't care I wanted my son. I would cry when I left him even years later when I was told it would be "better". I would start counting hours till I could see him I would keep him up late to get extra time with him and do nothing on the weekend but be with him because I felt like what time I had was so precious that I needed to spend every second with my son. Luckily I work for one of the company's recently rated by Working Mothers Magazine as a top company for working mothers and they allowed me to adjust my hours so that I'm now part-time and can spend the majority of my day home with my 2 kids. Is my career on hold yep, not much room for advancement when your hours are 6am-10am. Am I sad at all about it, nope. I would choose to not work at all if it was financially prudent but it's not and this is a great alternative. But to be treated like OMG look how hard we fought to give women the right to work how dare women choose not to work now after all that hard work. Well it may be steps back inyour mind, it may not be the choice you want, but I don't see what wrong with me doing what I want with my life.

To 3:32pm I am not and haven't met any of those people (probably because I had my son at 23 before anyone decided they needed to start handing me the lecture on my duty to procreate) I can understand your frustration nobody likes beind told what they are doing is wrong and in todays world of overpopulation it's horrible to say but more people are needed to make the choice of having 1 or 0 children. Also kids are work. What happens when you find yourself in the wrong line of work... your miserable, same thing with kids. If you don't want kids and don't feel the desire to have kids then please don't have kids. Live your life the way you want and enjoy it... it doesn't last forever.

It's funny but if people live their lives to make themselves happy and stop worrying so much about what others are doing we'd ALL be so much happier. There is a reason we are all different, if we all wanted to do the exact same thing there would be too many of one specific field and none in another... or a few happy people and a bunch of miserable people. As long as people are happying, living their lives, and not hurting your's or breaking any laws then just let them live.

Monday, October 02, 2006, 10:16 AM

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I am happying --thanks 10:16 poster!

10:16 poster wrote: "As long as people are happying..."
It's probably just a typo, but I like it!!!!

What am I doing today? I am happying! :-D

Monday, October 02, 2006, 10:41 AM

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I am happying too!

Tuesday, October 03, 2006, 12:16 PM

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