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Ok, I know the lose vs. loose has been said, but PLEASE, advice is a noun, what you want or what you are giving here on PT....advise is a verb, the act of giving or receiving advice
Thu. Oct 5, 5:45pm
oh, christ! why not label this thread "another grammar lesson from the anally retentive"?
Friday, October 06, 2006, 10:37 AM
Not the op. Using proper grammar is not "anally retentive". It's actually polite.
Friday, October 06, 2006, 11:09 AM
Not the OP either...
Some PTers just can't resist being nasty, particularly on the anonymous threads. Those of us who spell correctly are not anal-retentive... We just don't like seeing the English language being massacred.
Friday, October 06, 2006, 11:43 AM
Politeness and grammar? Weird connection. The only connection I really see is when someone is unable to look past simple errors made by people who are either non-linguistically-oriented or are possibly just in a hurry.
When I taught high school I loved the first day, the day I explained to the kids that I wasn't about to teach them "proper" English (which only exists in the minds of elitists). *Standard* English, yes...but it wasn't any more "proper" than the English they spoke with their friends. Both depend on the situation in which one finds oneself. For example, right now there are PT readers who are thinking (quite correctly) that I'm a little bit linguistically stiff for a casual forum. "Oneself?" Come on.
In my classes, I put it this way: Imagine the one person you daydream about, the best-looking person you know, the Perfect One!, has invited you to a formal dinner at a country club--but all you have to wear is a swimsuit.
Now imagine the same person has invited you to a beach party with barbecue and volleyball, but all you have to wear is your formal attire.
Both are equally ridiculous. There are places where standard (not proper, but standard) English is appropriate, even necessary; and there are places where it is as out of place as a chiffon gown on the beach.
Advice/advise--This is a simple spelling or usage error, not that important, pretty easy to figure out, and certainly not worth making a big fuss over in a place that's supposed to be about casual, relaxed, noncritical conversation.
Friday, October 06, 2006, 11:52 AM
Above poster - thank you for explaining so simply why "proper grammar" isn't such a big deal to us when posting on PT.
I save that for business proposals and letters to clients.
Friday, October 06, 2006, 11:59 AM
Again, not op, but no fuss is being made. Advice/advise is NOT a simple error. I bet many do not know the difference and the OP was doing them a favor.
Friday, October 06, 2006, 11:59 AM
sure spelling mistakes aren't that big of a deal-but i find it annoys me too when someone spells something wrong that easily could have been sounded out phonetically. advise-advice fall into these categories. if you are going to take the time to respond-take the time to "sound" out your message. you can tell when someone is in a hurry posting vs. just doesn't know how to spell-if they are in a hurry they may leave off a letter like "you" when they mean "your" or rearrange "hte" when they mean "the".
Friday, October 06, 2006, 12:03 PM
how does my grammar help/hinder my weight-loss efforts?
Friday, October 06, 2006, 12:05 PM
Okay, I'm not the OP either. (I feel like we're playing the "not it!" game!) Thank you, 11:52 poster. I loved the points you made & think the analogy you used was great!
Friday, October 06, 2006, 12:05 PM
(second) 12:05 poster here. I am also annoyed by incorrect grammar & spelling, but I realize that not everyone feels as strongly about it (nor should they-different opinions are what makes the Earth keep turning). I'm just happy people are posting & connecting with each other. Isn't that really the ultimate purpose of this site?
Friday, October 06, 2006, 12:08 PM
I like the connection and welcome the grammar police.
Friday, October 06, 2006, 12:09 PM
when you "sound out phonetically" the words advise and advice, they sound the same. if you are all so smart about language and it's uses, can't you figure out what people mean? why go around wagging your fingers at those who may be communicating in english as their second language? this is silly.
Friday, October 06, 2006, 12:09 PM
Thanks 11:52!!! Well said.
Friday, October 06, 2006, 12:41 PM
12:09 poster, they only sound the same if you are English or Australian! Americans pronounce the two endings differently.
But there is a point -- not everyone on PT is using American English. There are legitimate differences among dialects in the spelling of some endings. Most often, those that Americans spell "-ize" (e.g., professionalize, criticize) are spelled "ise" by other English speakers. In those cases it's a difference between correct usages in two different dialects.
Not the OP, but:
As for the question of whether usage should be corrected, I'm all for it. Writing correctly is a good habit to have, and just like the good eating and exercise habits we are all strugging to develop it requires guidance and practice. The high-school teacher who does not instill these habits in his or her students is doing the students NO favors. One of my best friends, who has a high-school diploma, just tested out at the 9th-grade level of writing. He would like to get into an associate's degree program and cannot gain entrance with his current writing skills. So, in his mid-forties, he is struggling to use past-tense, apostrophes, and articles correctly -- it's NOT fun, but if he doesn't do it he will not remain employable.
So my thought is that if "elitist" means "has a job that can't be outsourced to Asia," then yes, proper English usage is elitist.
Friday, October 06, 2006, 12:55 PM
i'll ask again-what does grammar have to do with weight-loss?
Friday, October 06, 2006, 12:59 PM
Exactly as much as dogs, husband's porn, and skin moisturizers. Why do you ask?
Friday, October 06, 2006, 1:20 PM
my take on it all is this: dogs can improve heart rate and blood pressure and motivate us to get outside; husband's porn could trigger an eating binge or lead to an incredible loss of self esteem, thus diminishing any efforts to improve ones overall health; and skin lotion is important to use when exercising regularly to avoid dried out skin from so much sweating and showering. somehow i cannot find a place in my taking-care-of-my-health routine for "proper" grammar, especially when the term "proper" is so loosely defined as they way some americans pronounce the english language.
Friday, October 06, 2006, 1:59 PM
12:55, I like the point you make, although fyi, Australian and English people also pronounce the endings as "s" vs "z".
My 5c? It's about standards. If we don't aspire to bettering ourselves, watch how quickly we'll degenerate into a society of ill-spoken illiterates.
I'm NOT saying that I go around correcting people when they misuse a word. Of course no one expects someone to speak perfect English if it's their second language. But there's nothing wrong with putting a thread on community board advising readers who may be interested in getting it right.
Friday, October 06, 2006, 2:22 PM
To the 1:59 poster: apparently some people on here are finding it related (whether that's because it's stressful for them, they find it vitally important, they just want to talk about it, etc.). I can see both sides of the issue, which is beside the point, but if we start asking why things are relevant to our "health goals," where do we draw the line? Clearly, your questions aren't going to stop people from posting this stuff, as there are no "rules of engagement" for keeping to the topic on this site.
It's Friday everyone! Let's all kick back with a glass of wine and laugh about our "po-tay-to" "po-tah-to" issues. Here's to the weekend!
Friday, October 06, 2006, 2:55 PM
look, i just think that it's a bit condescending to repeatedly correct others' grammar on this site. i would hate to think that some people with less-than-perfect grammar will stop posting because they do not want to expose themselves to this kind of criticism.
Friday, October 06, 2006, 2:59 PM
2:55 I like your attitude. Live and let live... discussion is good.
Friday, October 06, 2006, 3:01 PM
yeah, live and let live as long as your grammar is as good as mine...
Friday, October 06, 2006, 3:12 PM
3:12, have you asked yourself why you're being so defensive?
Friday, October 06, 2006, 3:25 PM
i am defending myself against the anally retentive grammar police.
Friday, October 06, 2006, 3:35 PM
Eh, and the question was "why?"
Friday, October 06, 2006, 3:41 PM
because they started a thread. eh?
Friday, October 06, 2006, 3:47 PM
I too am a teacher (special ed MATH, no less) and I think you look ignorant when you don't know the difference between what you are actually writing and what you are trying to say. (And I'm NOT talking about typos!) And while I liked the bathing suit analogy, it totally does not apply here...I'm not talking about using "relaxed" grammar, I'm talking about using the complete wrong word. And I honestly beliebe that those of you that are SO opposed to learning the correct words are going to continue to look stupid. There, I said it.
Friday, October 06, 2006, 4:44 PM
do you really, honestly beliebe that?
Friday, October 06, 2006, 4:49 PM
Get a life!
Saturday, October 07, 2006, 12:21 AM
I too find the infrequent grammar corrections on this site and on other internet sites very distracting and rather mean. I would be offended if when having a conversation with someone, they corrected my mispronunciations or misuse of my words. How would you feel if your boss kept correcting you when you are speaking with her/him? It would be rude and a hostile work environment and you probably wouldn't stay long. Perfect spelling/grammar is for resumes and other important written communications, not a discussion internet site.
For example when I am watching TV or a movie and someone refers to the "cavalry" (as in the army's division of horse soldiers) as the "calvary" (the hill where Jesus was crucified) it annoys me, but I would never dream of correcting someone if they were face to face with me.
Tolerance and common courtesy is the issue here.
If you have perfect grammar and spelling, I commend you. But I don't think it is proper english to use that perfection to make others feel bad. Not everyone is perfect and we all have our strengths and weakness' so let's all just try to accept each others imperfections.
(and yes there are probably mis-spelled words here and my grammar may not be correct but I am sure you are all intelligent enough to understand my point and not try to play english teacher)
Sunday, October 15, 2006, 12:07 AM
OMFG, who cares? Maybe people are just in a rush when typing and don't bother to turn on spell check. I will agree it is sad to realize so many don't speak proper english and use the correct grammar but it's even sadder that someone would be bothered by this topic. There are so many topics and threads going on that have nothing to do with weight loss, after all this site isn't soley for losing weight, it's for accountability and overall health and fitness.
Sunday, October 15, 2006, 2:38 AM
if my boss corrected my English
12:07 -- How would I feel if my boss corrected my pronunciation or grammar? Worried about my future employment. Hey, life isn't all about self-esteem; work is about productivity, competance, and smarts. I'd 100x rather be corrected here than by my boss.
Sunday, October 15, 2006, 11:59 AM
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