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skinny bitch??

Have any of you read the book skinny bitch? I sat down and read it after hearing about all the hype and as someone who tries to eat balanced meals, I feel very skeptical. Maybe its just the part of me that like fish, lean meat, non-fat dairy, and thinks eggs are wonder foods that is skeptical but nonetheless.....i was wondering if anyone knows/has thoughts on how accurate their nutritional claims about food are? or if you beileve/follow the book?

Mon. Aug 6, 2:56pm

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loved the book, I have been following the ideas for about 1 week, and I am down 5 lbs. I weigh 135 now, my goal is 120. I liked that the book was so direct and to the point. I don't think I can live a strict vegan life, but some of the principals are no brainers and just make sense, so for now I cut out all sugar/ real and fake. just common sense in a drill sargent method : )

Monday, August 06, 2007, 4:17 PM

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me with no chocolate = I'm skinny...I'm skinny with no chocolate = I'm a skinny bitch

Is that how it works :-)

Monday, August 06, 2007, 9:45 PM

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Good chocolate doesn't contain dairy.

Tuesday, August 07, 2007, 7:36 AM

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Right on Skinny Bitch !

Tuesday, August 07, 2007, 11:20 AM

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I plugged this into the search window to see if there were any comments about this book. So the crib sheet is go vegan and you'll be skinny? I guess they put a provocative name and it sells. Vegan is a very "hippy" thing that is hard to relate to.

Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 10:18 AM

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I read it cover to cover and I leave it out for daily reminders as to why I have decided to incorporate the Skinny Bitch philosophy into my life.

I am not Vegan, however I did give up meat; beef, poultry, pork. I will occassionally have fish, but I've been sticking to a meatless diet, watching my sugar intake, and eating a lot more fruits and vegetables. Also! I've been eating my carbs!!! The result...clear skin, more vibrant hair, stronger nails, less anxiety and mood swings, and I'm down 14.5 lbs since I started the program about 2 months ago.

After I read the book, I felt a little deceived because the book isn't advertised as PRO Vegan - regardless, I got some good out of it and am happy with my new lifestyle.

Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 10:26 AM

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On my way to being skinny...

I have read the book and love it! I'm eating all organic foods, leaving out most meats (if I do have meat, I try to make it organic). I have also given up dairy. I am losing weight consistantly now...with much less exercise than I was doing before. I eat 6-7x per day. I still have chocolate. I try to make all my sugar raw, or use organic honey. I still have cookies (vegan-and you wouldn't know). I still have chips (organic pita, or bean and rice chips). I do not feel deprived in any way. And I am not a strict vegan at all. I believe the book essentially teaches the removal of chemicals, additives, hormones, and antibiotics from your diet and your body will automatically find it's way back to it's natural harmony. I believe 100%. It's happening to me right now.

For all of you that haven't read it, it's a very quick read! I read it in one sitting at the bookstore. Highly recomended.

Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 10:33 AM

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I think I was there about an hour? or hour and 1/2. Yes, I cheated ;), but I think I still want to buy it!

Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 11:14 AM

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skinny bitch???

I thought it was a terrific book, and after reading it, bought multiple copies and gave it to friends and family to read. I have been a vegetarian since 1989 and do not have a problem with my weight - specifically because I do not consume dairy, meat, eggs and other gross chemically manufactured foods as talked about it the book.

I'm not sure why you are so skeptical, probably because you want to hang on to your old habits. Everything in the book was well documented and factual.

Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 11:14 AM

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I'm skeptical about it because I've read other research out there that says going vegan is unhealthy for a variety of reasons. I'm skeptical because if I don't eat enough animal protein, I wind up feeling sluggish and icky. I'm skeptical because I tried a different diet plan that has me regularly eating meat (preferably lean and organic, no pork) and my skin cleared up, the depression went away, the migraines went away, the asthma disappeared, the allergies disappeared, and I never get heartburn or indigestion anymore. Plus, in 2 years since I've been eating this way, I haven't gotten a cold, flu, or any other kind of illness.

The only reason I'm not at my "ideal" weight is because I haven't been able to cut my grain servings down to 4 a week. I lost 40lbs when I started my diet, in less than 6 months. If I get such fantastic results and am happy with my diet, I would be skeptical of changing to something like skinny bitch which is diametrically opposed to my current way of eating.

Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 12:27 PM

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i have been a vegetarian for just over two years now. I read the book and totally agree with it. I am an animal lover and strongly agree that everyone should do anything that they can to stop animal abuse and suffering. Factory farms and slaughter houses are full of cruel people doing cruel things. Honestly for heath, karma, and compassion please educate yourself on the conditions that go on regarding animal products, by-products and animal testing. i would bet that the majority of people would want to cut out as many animal products as possible if they were educated on the issues. hey every little bit helps.

Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 12:33 PM

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vegetarianism is hard to get used to. it takes a bit for your body (and your brain) to realize that you don't need animal protein. there are a ton of protein sources that don't include taking the life of animals.

Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 12:39 PM

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So, don't do it 12:27. If you don't have issues with how aninmals are raised and treated, you don't have issues with all of the hormones, and you like your current eating habits - don't read it, don't contemplate it, etc.

Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 1:21 PM

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well 1:21, someone asked why anybody would be skeptical, so I answered a question. If people don't want answers, they shouldn't ask questions. And if people want everyone to support their opinion, they should be somewhere other than an internet forum.

And no, I don't have any problems with the morality of eating meat. None. You can call me cold, calloused, a speciesist, whatever you want, but it won't change my opinion, and name calling doesn't usually lend itself to credibility.

Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 1:31 PM

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gotcha 12:21 - not trying to change anyone's opinion. And I really have no feelings about people who eat meat - I eat meat! I read the book and loved it and like someone else mentioned I'll implement a lot of the changes, but it did address all of those things that you're skeptical about. But, if your diet works for you, and you don't have a problem with the animal stuff, then that's that. :) Peace. BTW - I'm confused, who's name calling?

Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 1:39 PM

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I didn't ask why you are skeptical but in defense of whoever did and 1:21... It is insanly hard to imagine that someone could have knowledge of the way animals are treated so that they can be consumed by humans and not think that there is something terribly wrong with it. Ignorance is one thing but if you read the book and still do not question the "morality of eating meat" than you have issues. Compassion is calling...PICK UP.

Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 1:43 PM

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1:43 - not only how the animals are treated, but the insanely disgusting envirnoments in which they are 'raised' , which is why they have to pump all of the animals full of antibiotics. Yum.

Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 1:48 PM

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I know! and now bacteria are becoming resistant to our antibiotics because antibiotics are being used constantly. and don't get me started on the enviromental issues.

Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 1:51 PM

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1:31 again, my point about the name calling was pre-emptive, and obviously in order seeing the comment in the 1:43 post. Always seems to be the case that a militant vegan will appear somewhere...

(plus it seems to have been missed that I said organic meat. Though I suppose I could have taken the time to clarify that "organic" means hormone free and fed organic feed, and that that it's really "organic free range grass fed" beef that I try to eat, and the chickens I eat come from a small hutterite farm- but hey, everyone is allowed to assume that all meat eaters don't think. And admittedly, I eat the meat I do for my health, and nothing to do with the animals or their conditions.)

Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 1:58 PM

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Skinny Bitch Review


I absolutely LOVE this book! As some others have pointed out, it just makes sense. stop eating crap - lose weight. I am vegan, and am raising my children as such. I was very skeptical also, and met with many nutritionists and doctors, and encourage you to do the same. But if you make sure that you're eating right - not just vegan junk food - you're sure to feel the AMAZING benefits! If you're still not sure, why not try the 30 day veg pledge? Decide for yourself! Good luck!!

Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 3:07 PM

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Skinny Bitch Diet

You said: "I'm skeptical about it because I've read other research out there that says going vegan is unhealthy for a variety of reasons". I ask what research? Chances are, you'll find the Meat and Dairy industry is the money behind the study. Also, this is a report of the Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee on the Dietary Guidelines for Americans, 2000 to the Secretary of Health and Human Services... "State that American animal-based (meat & dairy) diets
promote diet-related diseases; vegetarian diets promote
disease reversal.
• Recommend a gradual transition to a vegan diet.
• Include vegetarian diets as a healthy alternative.
• Advocate the adoption of vegetarian/vegan diets by
acknowledging their suitability and promoting their
healthful advantages (2).
• Recommend vegetarianism; vegetarians are slimmer and
healthier than meat-eaters and suffer lower rates of
obesity-linked diseases.
• Update and expand information on protective benefits
of vegetarian diets and on plant sources of protein for
those following these diets.
• Strengthen commitment toward wholesome"

You said "I'm skeptical because if I don't eat enough animal protein, I wind up feeling sluggish and icky". I'd ask what you're eating. Even non-animal based foods can be junky. Are you following actual veg guidelines? Because if so, you'd be quite rare - almost nobody (except those with soy allergies, etc) has a problem eating a truly comprehensive veg diet.

You said "I'm skeptical because I tried a different diet plan that has me regularly eating meat (preferably lean and organic, no pork) and my skin cleared up, the depression went away, the migraines went away, the asthma disappeared, the allergies disappeared, and I never get heartburn or indigestion anymore. Plus, in 2 years since I've been eating this way, I haven't gotten a cold, flu, or any other kind of illness. The only reason I'm not at my "ideal" weight is because I haven't been able to cut my grain servings down to 4 a week. I lost 40lbs when I started my diet, in less than 6 months. If I get such fantastic results and am happy with my diet, I would be skeptical of changing to something like skinny bitch which is diametrically opposed to my current way of eating." I said bull. How do you know it's the grains if you're still eating all the other crap? You don't. If you were so 'happy with your other diet', you wouldn't have picked up the book at all. If it gives you 'such amazing results', you would not be looking for something else.

And there's that old saying: Don't knock it till you've tried it. Good luck! If you need support, we have a great veg community on this site (and in 'real' life!)



Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 3:23 PM

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well I looked at "skinny bitch" because I was curious. Kinda like reading "Mein Kampf" without wanting to be a nazi. I'm not looking for anything else. I didn't read the whole book because once I realised it was vegan, I realised I didn't want to read any of it.

On average, I eat 6-8 cups of veggies a day. Mostly raw. Plus a smoothie of fresh mango juice with 5 strawberries and a banana. I never eat out unless eating a steak at a sit down restaurant, or a make-it-in-front-of-you stir fry place. I don't buy pre-made meals of any kinds. The grain products I do eat are all made at local small wheat-free bakeries- one of which even grows and mills their own spelt flour. I don't eat white flour. The only dairy I eat is organic cheese and cream. So you can call my food junk, be antagonistic, but the fact remains that I have NO health problems since changing to my current way of eating, and I'm not worried about the 10-15 vanity pounds- they'd be nice to lose, but not at the expense of turning into a bitch.

How do I know it's the grains? Because of the changes I feel when I have too many. Because I tend to look after my body and be very in tune with it. (Us meat eaters can be in tune with our bodies too)

So you can call bull, you can accuse me of eating junk without knowing what I normally eat, you can do whatever you want but I assure you that I will not under any circumstances change my views about the food I eat. I respect your right to be vegan and believe in it, but I don't think it's the only path to great health, and I think I have the right to believe and say that.

Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 3:55 PM

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Wow! Of course you have a right to your own opinion! But top quote YOURSELF, "If people don't want answers, they shouldn't ask questions". You asked about the book, and how anyone knew it was correct - I answered.

Again, good luck. We all have to find what works for us.


Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 4:25 PM

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I think the most important part of the book is to highlight the toxins in our foods. Meat and dairy should not overwhelm us, but they are a natural part of the order of things. Chemicals cooked up to turn food fake is the real problem here- that is stuff that really taxes your body.

If you think milking cows is wrong, and eating a good steak is wrong, that is simply your opinion. Of course you are a communist and a friend of the devil, but I respect your view.

Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 4:47 PM

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Casein is a milk protein and is a proven carcinogen. Is that what you mean about the natural order of things? When you cook your meat it releases carcinogenic chemicals. Natural?? The societies with the highest meat and dairy are the societies with the highest cancer, heart didease, and osteoporosis rates. That seems natural, right.

The China Study is the largest population study of nutrition ever done. It was a joint project by Cornell, Oxford, and experts in China. The New York Times has recognized the study (China-Oxford-Cornell Diet and Health Project) as the “Grand Prix of epidemiology” and the “most comprehensive large study ever undertaken of the relationship between diet and the risk of developing disease.”

If you really want to umderstand the link between disease and animal products you should read the study. If you would like to stay blissfully ignorant then by all means continue with your current lifestyle. Now if you will please excuse me I'm late for my weekly pagan resurrection ceremony. Today we are trying to resurrect Karl Marx, fingers crossed!! :-)

Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 5:46 PM

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backing away from the extreme anti-dairy position?

5:46- even guys like Joel Fuhrman are backing away from the extreme anti-dairy position. They still recommend very low levels of meat and dairy, but Mr. Campbell is finding himself among a smaller pool of strict adherents than he was before. What nobody refutes, however, is the idea that man made chemicals wreak havoc on your body. Getting rid of processed foods may well be a critically important part of our diet and health.

Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 6:46 PM

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Just arrived and have nothing profound or deep to add. To me the issue is so complex yet incredibly simple if you just look at societies that don't subsist on animal products, the ones that aren't in famine or malnourishment. They do NOT have the osteoporosis ( actually caused by dairy foods), diabetes, cancer rates ( to mention a few) that we do; ( and in epidemic proportions I might add!) It's so obvious that it makes me want to cry to see the better part of a well educated country so steeped in deception and illusion.

Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 8:35 PM

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"needing" animal protein is a myth

You are skeptical because you have "bought in" to a commercial. The meat and dairy industry is a BUSINESSES and they are selling a PRODUCT. Do you believe every commercial out there? Advertisers want you to buy their product, so they will tell you want you want to hear. For decades now, the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine has been advocating a diet based on grains, legumes, and fresh vegetables and fruits (AKA vegan diet). They are a NOT-FOR-PROFIT organization. Others like them with NOTHING to gain are also advocating a vegan diet.

Wake up and do some research. You do not need animal protein to survive and you DO NOT need dairy, unless you are a calf or you want to be a cow when you grow up.

Vegan are not hippies - they are healthy individuals who care about their health and the environment in which we all live.


Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 8:48 PM

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For Crying Out Loud!!!

We could go on and on about whether it's safe or moral to eat meat. There are people all over the world that eat tons of meat and are fine and there are people all over the world that are mostly vegetarian and they are fine.

I tried to be a vegetarian and lasted only a month. I did it the healthy way (not just Cheetos and Mac n Cheese) and I was craving meat all the time. Can't do it and won't even consider trying it a second time.

What I have been focusing on is WHERE my meat comes from and HOW the animals are raised. My salmon is wild and most of my chicken is organic. I also buy only organic vegetables and fruits. The butter, milk and eggs that I buy are also organic. Soon, I plan to become a regular at several local farmer's market and might splurge on grass fed pork or beef once in a while.

While the Veggies may be right about how the goverment benefits from us eating their products, but so do the parties that tell you meat is bad. They scare you to death about meat and then encourage you to buy corn and soy based processed foods made to look and "taste?" like the real thing. Where do you think they get the ingredients to make that stuff?


Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 9:39 PM

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i think most people would agree that dramatically reducing animal fat, saturated fat and dairy is a good thing- simply because most Americans eat such a huge percentage as total calories. However, this thread is leading to an unnecessary extreme. 5-10-15 percent animal protein you will be fine. But most of us rarely get there. Instead of this being a pro meat or vegan extreme argument, it should really be about where to be high and on the right of the graph. By that I mean what is the percentage of vegetable, high nutrient (Eat to Live stuff) that provides the ideal health benefit. Being an extremist rarely does anyone any good. BTW, I am a total believer in Eat to Live, I just follow it in my own way that includes some meat, but no dairy.

Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 9:50 PM

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Meat Your Meat

Information is power, and I don't think anyone is convincing anyone to do anything (go meat or go vegan). What's is really important is having the facts and then being able to make solid decisions based on those facts. We are all on peertrainer for essentially the same reason: to get or stay healthy and take care of our bodies. This is a peer group and I know we all have good intentions.

That being said,

If you are interested in your meat (what's in it, etc.), then read the book "Mad Cowboy" written by a forth generation cattle rancher and dairy farmer. His name is Howard Lyman and he's a real "man's man." You can't get more first hand information than that. He's been there, seen it, done it.

The link is below.

Happy Thanksgiving,



Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 10:19 PM

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I eat meat, eggs and some dairy. I'm healthy, 47, no diseases, conditions, asthma, headaches, I'm not obese - just trying to lose 20 pounds. I and most of you don't have to be vegan to be healthy. But based on what some people are saying here, SOME people are more healthy being vegan. That doesn't mean we all need to. Re organic food, sounds good in theory but there are problems with it as well
- microbiological spoilage of organic food is a recognised problem
- Organic farmers are allowed to use pesticides, but apply them more sparingly and tend not to use the broad-spectrum pesticides
- Organic farmers preferably apply cow or pig manure when this is available. It can be infected with the dangerous bacterium E coli 0157 disease organism that lives happily in the guts of cattle. Infection in human beings kills, or leaves victims without functioning kidneys.
Organic farmers use sulphur as a pesticide. But sulphur contains lead, a known danger. What is not known is how much of the lead is transferred to the food we eat.
organic farmers are allowed to spray crops with bacterial spores to act as a general-purpose insecticide

Calm down - I'm not saying that organic is bad. I'm saying it's not problem free. Also, the human body can do just fine with tolerable levels of many chemicals, which is why they have been approved.

Calm down again. I'm not saying chemicals are good or that I want them. Just looking at the other side here.

Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 11:04 PM

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pink, I didn't ask a question about the book, so I personally didn't want your answer or your allegations of eating crap, being naive, etc., etc.. I wasn't soliciting your advice, therefore did not need your open critique of my experience. Please don't misquote me, or confuse me with the OP.

Thursday, November 22, 2007, 1:35 AM

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Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Thursday, November 22, 2007, 4:10 AM

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My favorite non-dairy yogurt is 3g of fat per 6oz. it's not too bad and it tastes pretty good. I have not liked other soy yogurts so if you try, I'd recommend this one first. Blue Diamond almond milk is fantastic!

I read Skinny Bitch last year and I think it's a great book. It's full of great information. I stopped eating dairy last year (I was already vegetarian) and frankly the healthy benefits are unparalleled. I have way more energy than anyone I know to top it all. Not to mention there are certain budget benefits! Meat's expensive..lentils are not!!

Friday, November 23, 2007, 12:03 AM

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Vegan may work for you, but not for me

I use to live in San Francisco, so many people are vegetarian and enough are vegan to make it seem doable. I've tried being vegan twice in my life. And while some things felt great, I could never loose weight. In fact, the first time, I GAINED weight. And body just could never adjust. I was going to the gym for 6 weeks as a vegan, and my fitness level NEVER improved. Getting on the treadmill for 25 minutes was more an exercise in will power than anything else. And before you all write in to say "you just didn't do it right," that was my suspicion after the first time around. So the second time, I read all the books, blogs, consulted my vegan friends, etc. But it just didn't take. And politically, I'd love to be a vegan. I'm not against eating animals, but factory farming isn't my cup of tea.

But my point isn't to bash veganism, my point is to say, nothing works for everyone. You have to try things out to see if they work for you...sometimes more than once. So, if you're curious, try it out. All of our opinions are helpful to a point, but only you can know if it works for you. It didn't work for me, but it has worked for many of my friends...friends who are healthy active, and full of energy. Just like me. Except I eat meat.

Friday, November 23, 2007, 4:45 PM

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Vegan works for everyone, it's a matter of if you choose to believe it or not.

Saturday, November 24, 2007, 9:16 AM

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9:16 - did you mean to say 'astrology'

Saturday, November 24, 2007, 9:52 AM

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4:45 - I'm just curious - how do you know it was giong vegan that caused a stall in weight loss and not just the overconsumption of calories? Did you consume the same amount of calories and not lose weight?

Saturday, November 24, 2007, 10:20 AM

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You know what I find amazingly interesting? The people you always hear of who are turning or over 100, you know what 98% of them have in common? They all ate eggs and bacon for breakfast. I know the a lady who live down our street who is 95 and she walks everyday, looks fantastic and eats what she wants and when she wants. Call it good genes or whatever you want but I think thats pretty interesting.

I also know quite a few vegans and they get sick a lot and they don't look as healthy to me as people who eat protein from meats.

Saturday, November 24, 2007, 12:02 PM

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to the writer of: going vegan for 30 days?

If you are going to go vegan, and have never even tried tofu, then you are in for a battle and are setting yourself up for failure. Before diving in, get some really good vegan cookbooks. My favorite is called Vegan Planet. It's awesome.

You'll need to cook, because vegans can't eat out very easily. Also, find a few websites with vegan recipes. A good one is or

Then, order a free vegetarian starter kit (link below from

The key is to not set yourself up for failure. I have been vegan for almost 20 years, and the first year was rough because I had to retrain my brain AND learn to cook meals that were satisfying. It can be difficult, but the rewards are well worth it. I am almost 40, two kids, no weight issues and am very healthy and feel terrific. It's a no-brainer once you get going. I would never, ever go back to my meat and dairy-eating ways.

Good luck,



Saturday, November 24, 2007, 12:25 PM

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12:02, I've heard that too but it's not so..the people with the greatest longevity are actually Okinawan (Japan). Although they may consume some fish, eating off the hog they are not. Dairy is not part of their culture. 7th Day Adventists also have great longevity and they are typically vegetarian or vegan.

Many of longest living groups in the world are close to vegan. And even older folks in this country who live long will remind us that they did not eat meat daily until after ww2. For a large part of their youth, they did not eat the excessive diet that is so part of our culture today.

Until recently, there were very few vegans in this country therefore the chance that you'd actually meet an elderly vegan is pretty slim. The vegan movement in the 1920-30s was tiny. So just by pure numbers, you aren't going to find many elderly vegans. And of course, for folks who grew up in the depression and were involved with ww2, options were limited. People did what they knew. The elderly people that you are meeting now are just blessed with good genes. And those who weren't? They aren't with us anymore.

I am one of those people from families who are blessed with longevity. Both of my mother's parents' are still alive and have been married for 67 years (can you imagine???). They are 90 and 91 (gram just turned 90 on Wednesday!). Their parents all lived well into their 90s; their siblings too. I am vegan as is one of my sisters and the other is vegetarian. The rest of my family eats meat. Gram and grandpa have drunk way more alcohol than they should have, smoked and generally abused their bodies. Grandpa says "hey, look at me, I've done whatever I want and I'm 91. You can eat whatever you want." I beg to differ and so does my mom who carts them around all year around because grandpa is also blind from macular degeneration (doctors tell him if he had just eaten more veggies in his youth, he'd be in much better shape) and grandma is suffering from the early stages of dementia induced by drastic alcohol intake and poor diet. They both suffer from common joint problems that removing the dairy from their diet would cure. They are very fortunate to be alive and not suffering terribly but as my grandma says "getting old is horrible." However, my mom and I can't help but think that if they had just taken better care of themselves, they would be enjoying their 90s so much more. Good genes aren't an excuse for treating your body like crap. You may live long but it's more of a question of the quality of your life.

It will be interesting to see what happens as generations of my family age. My mom is going strong at 67 and I don't expect her to slow down anytime soon. I do expect that if she is blessed with this longevity, she's going to enjoy her 90s way more than my grandparents do (she not vegan but rarely eats fish, eggs, etc.). At 67, her health is considerably better than theirs at the same age. And god willing, if I make it to my 90s, it's going to be interesting to see, as a vegan, how I fare.

Saturday, November 24, 2007, 1:33 PM

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Going vegan isn't a ticket to great health. You can have a horrid diet of processed foods and still be vegan. And not everyone does it for health and not everyone does it out of compassion for animals. It's simply a choice about how to eat.

Saturday, November 24, 2007, 3:50 PM

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While, that's true, it's way more difficult to have a horrid diet of processed foods on a vegan diet considering that most "horrid" processed foods have animal ingredients. You could live on candy corn and coke I suppose. But since this is PeerTrainer and most of us are interested in being healthy/losing weight, I think we can assume here that when vegans are discussing their diet, they mean a healthy vegan diet and when non-vegans are discussing their diet, they also do not mean they are eating hohos, donuts, in otherwise, the "horrid" typical American diet.

Saturday, November 24, 2007, 6:43 PM

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I'm going to chime in here and say that not only is the same diet not good for everyone, but it may not be good for the same person at different times in one's life. I have been a vegetarian (not a vegan) for over 10 years, and in that time have lost 20 pounds, gained 17, and lost 30 (that has to do with exercise, mostly). Now that I am approaching menopause and my body chemistry is changing, vegetarianism no longer "works" for me. Where I used to test out fine, I am showing deficiencies in nutrients even though I follow a thoroughly researched and balanced veggie diet, so I have gone back to eating (lean, organic, free-range) meat in a limited way. The worst thing is that I have completely lost the taste for it! LOL.

Saturday, November 24, 2007, 6:44 PM

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1:33 - Thank for clearing all that up!! You are totally right.

And to Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 12:27 PM (I know, I know, I agree that it's silly!) You said "pink, I didn't ask a question about the book, so I personally didn't want your answer or your allegations of eating crap, being naive, etc., etc.. I wasn't soliciting your advice, therefore did not need your open critique of my experience. Please don't misquote me, or confuse me with the OP".
While you did not ask about the book, you expressed your views in a CHAT ROOM on the internet responding to a posted question about a book. If it were something you did not want to discuss, you may want to consider keeping your comments to yourself. I did not allege that you ate crap; simply replied that a lot of people do when they give up rotting flesh and animal products that largely consist of hormones and carcinogenic chemicals, and therefore do not see very good results. I did not offer any advice, or accuse you of being naive; I did not misquote you (please note the quotation marks used), or confuse you with the OP (by which I assume you mean Original Poster - I googled it). However, I do now feel that it would now be irresponsible of me to not advise you to watch out for that Mad Cow disease – I do believe that you may have fallen victim.

To those who are really interested in veganism/vegetarianism, I REALLY hope you'll check out some of the great groups and teams on PT!

Love your resident militant vegan,


Sunday, November 25, 2007, 2:10 AM

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I'm just not a fan of the writing. The same info is better said by others and they don't talk about portion control, which is very important.

Thursday, June 26, 2008, 11:14 AM

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I would love to follow the skinny bitch guidelines but I can't have grains or beans (allergies). I'm trying to eat seeds and nuts, but restaurants are tough and I eat out a lot- any time I want spices! I guess I need to learn to cook pure vegetable dishes-- any advice, skinny bitches?

Friday, June 27, 2008, 6:20 PM

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Yikes, that's tough! You might want to check out Dr. Joel Fuhrmans books, Eat to Live and Eat for Health. They focus on nutrient/density more than straight veganism, so they might have more options for you.

Friday, June 27, 2008, 6:38 PM

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I hope to be a skinny bitch one day!! Until then, I will just bitch about them. :)

Friday, June 27, 2008, 7:28 PM

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It's true that people don't need ANIMAL protein; however, please be mindful of the fact that you do NEED protein, and you need to make sure you're getting enough protein. In general, the Skinny Bitch recommended meals tend to be a bit light on protein, but that's something you can fix on the fly and still stick to the diet. Please just be careful, and listen to your body. Remember that what works wonders for one person might not be right for you. Different bodies will react differently to things.

Friday, June 27, 2008, 8:03 PM

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6:38 thanks for the Eat to Live and Eat for Health recommendations. I will check them out.

Friday, June 27, 2008, 10:08 PM

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No problem. Is soy out too with your allergies? My son has tons of food allergies, so I know it can be really hard!

Friday, June 27, 2008, 11:38 PM

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yes, I am allergic, very allergic to soy and all legumes. I'm trying to eat seeds and nuts, but chicken still attracts me. Especially at restaurants. And even though I hadn't had red meat, in years, Outback Restaurants started serving a bread that I can eat (made of low protein grains) in the NE. So now I'm eating red meat again!! I've got to stick to shrimp at least when I go there. If your son is Gluten Free, definitely head out to Outback Restaurant.

Saturday, June 28, 2008, 3:40 PM

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ok keeping in mind that I have not read this book, but I have read this thread and I did spend many years of my life as a vegetarian ... I just want to say that vegetarianism and even more so veganism, is simply not for everyone! Yes everyone who really wants to live this way can probably find ways to make it work for themselves but it is a LOT of work and you need to be prepared to do that work.

I was raised for the first 15 years of my life as a vegarian. In my teen years I began to have more and more opportunities to eat meat as I was eating more and more out of my own home ... I should note that cheese and eggs and dairy were always part of our lives ... but it was not until I started eating meat that I realized how much my body had been needing it. I believe that I was anemic prior to introducing meat and I believe that my body was craving it.

Even my mother who was the one raising us as vegetarians, now eats some meat. She eats high quality meat and she eats it maybe once a week at most. She recognized that her body needed it and instead of being hung up on the label of being vegan or vegetarian, she wanted to be healthy and feel good.

Please don't mistake what I'm saying as a negative against eating whole foods, organics and/or even being vegetarian or vegan. Just know that there are definitely some people who will really struggle to feel full and 100% healthy without the nutritional benefits of GOOD QUALITY meats & dairy.

I'm a firm believer that balance is key and that looking back into history at what we ate before the industrial revolution is a big indicator of how we should eat. Of course there have been massive steps made in health and safety and it's the health rating of the food - including how it was treated as a live animal - I am eating that is far more important to me than anything else.

Try it if you like but don't forget that for some people it may not be the right fit! Vegan, vegetarianism is very trendy right now and the reality is that if you are going to do it, you need to be UBER-conscience of what your body needs and how to give it ALL the necessary nutrients while eliminating major food groups - it takes a lot of work and knowledge to do it right. I can't speak for the authors of "skinny bitch" but I'm going to go out on a limb and wager a guess that it's a book cashing in on the trendiness of the times. A person considering this lifestyle change should do a lot more reading than one quick read that can be ingested in an hour or so!

that's my 2-cents ...

Saturday, June 28, 2008, 4:07 PM

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I agree! I am raising my kids vegan, but I make sure they are healthy, have labs done once a year, etc.

Sunday, June 29, 2008, 1:34 AM

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I have read this book over and over. It's what has opened my eyes to what I always knew in my heart. A+

Monday, June 30, 2008, 12:02 PM

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answer to question on skinny bitch

In Skinny Bitch, by Rory Freedman and Kim Barnouin, the claim made is that dairy products are disease causing and individuals are blanketing themselves from the miserable realities of the American meat and dairy industries. The authors of this book offer information that is most likely true about the health value of meat and dairy products. Unfortunately, the evidence and supporting examples lack credability and this makes their arguments lack certainity. Rory Freedman and Kim Barnouin use rhetorical strategies to illustrate this point. The authors imply arguments and facts but do not actually say they are a result of dairy products. These arguments provided by Freedman and Barnouin are not convincing because of the evidence and support used in illustrating these points, which make the arguments non-credible. Despite its seemingly indigestible qualities, “Skinny Bitch” is one of the most famous vegan books published and read.
One argument advanced in the book is that the high protein content of dairy leaches calcium from the body, leading to increase risk of Osteoporosis. The first supporting evidence of this claim was research done at Harvard, Yale, Penn State, and the National Institute of Health, showing that not one study found dairy to be a deterrent to Osteoporosis. Looking further into the evidence located in the endnotes, this evidence was taken from a web paged named “”. It is obvious that the source of this evidence may have bias in this field and support the authors claim. Because of the source of evidence provided by Freedman and Barnouin this indirect claim made lacks certainity because of the non-credible sources used in evidence for this claim. Although the authors do not directly say that dairy products cause Osteoporosis, this is the claim being made and this is part of their rhetorical strategy being used to persuae the reader to believe their claims.
It must be said that the argument claimed by the authors has the potential to have some degree of truth. This is seen through advertisement of dairy products, and the overshadowing health benefits that may limit one from seeing the negative side effects of dairy and meat consumption. In the example used by Freedman and Barnouin, “Greedy farmers have their cows producing up to a hundred pounds of milk a day, Cows are milked by machine, metal clamps are attached to sore and infected udders as a result of over pumping.” (Skinny Bitch) There is no reason one would not believe this statement presented, the problem lies when the authors make claims such as “milk is not a reliable source of minerals” (Skinny Bitch), in which the evidence for this claim is slim at best. An intersting and supportive claim made by Freedman and Barnouin is that the milk and dairy industry spend hundreds of millions of dollars every year marketing their products. “Average consumers don’t spend their time persuing medical journals, but they do read magazines and watch television.” (Skinny Bitch) This statement is absolutely correct and this could be the way that these industries are blanketing consumers from the truth regarding the harsh reality of meat and dairy products.
It is possible that dairy is not as good as the dairy company portrays, and the authors may be correct about there claim but evidence given to support there claims and arguments are non-credible. Having non-credible arguments makes one think that the argument itself is false, although having the possibility of being true. The reputation of the sources for supporting evidence is very important in forming an argument and the authors have failed at showing legitimate supporting and opposing views of there arguments.

Monday, December 01, 2008, 3:18 PM

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Pp, awesome analysis of the book!!! I wish everyone was so critical about the way information is presented. It was a pleasure to read your post! Thanks!

Monday, December 01, 2008, 4:36 PM

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Skinny Bitch was a great way to introduce my DD (28) to the horrors of factory farming, and I'm glad there was a resource that caught her attention and helped make her more aware of where her food comes from. She still eats meat, but thankfully she is leaning into nutrition now. Which brings me to what I really want to add to this conversation.

It's not about being a vegetarian, or vegan, or using meat alternatives. IMHO, It's about eating for nutrition. And when you do that, the meat and dairy just fall away as inconsequential as well as undesirable. A friend is studying chemistry because she wants to know the truth - and they have done the experiment that shows how digesting animal protein creates an acidic state that prompts our body to steal calcium etc from our bones. I want strong healthy bones, so no dairy for me!

I want to live healthy until it's time to die, so I eat mostly plants. A little wild game finds it's way into our meals occasionally, and I even had a little bite of meat this past Turkey Day, but those are rare exceptions. Gone are the days of empty calories. Gone are the days of counting calories too. The more fresh foods I eat the better I feel, when I eat processed foods I feel like crap, so as I lean into nutrition I eat better all the time - it's a positive reinforcing cycle. We evolved based on a diet of antioxidants, I encourage you to look there for health.

ps you don't need soy or corn products as meat substitutes, I get plenty of protein from plants by eating for micronutrients instead of macronutrients. Start slow, just add more fruits and veggies to your diet. Stop eating so many grains, add nuts and seeds and avocados and ditch the oil. Gradually change the proportions on your plate until meat is the smallest and veggies are the largest and see how you feel. Say no to processed foods and hello to health.


Monday, December 01, 2008, 4:39 PM

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See I don't do vegan as I don't think it's healthy or nutritious at all. I don't have canines for ripping plants, I have them for tearing flesh. One can find thousands of studies to support either veganism or omnivorism- quite probably because we are not really all the same. I have allergies to legumes (including soy), corn, and wheat. Being vegan wouldn't work well at all. Diet full of protien, veggies and fruit, limited grains- that's what makes me healthy. I have never drank milk (though I put whipping cream in my rare coffee), I've always eaten meat, and I've never broken a bone in my body, despite having done enough stupid things that should have broken a bone or two.

Tuesday, December 02, 2008, 10:21 AM

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Love this book!!

I use this book as my bible. These ladies did their research. I've found similar thoughts on various health pages that too much meat and dairy is really not good for you. I'm not saying, and I don't think they are saying, never eat meat or dairy again...but they do give you good food for thought on how it effects your system and that in itself should help you curb how much of each you consume. I was vegetarian for years...married a hunter...go figure....I eat lean deer meat as I believe if you hunt it, don't waste it. I try and stick to the veggie and fruit diet about 80% of the time and I can really feel the difference. As far as the notes on sugar...splenda and those fake sugars are so overprocessed. It's scary to think of all the chemicals that we ingest. Stick with raw sugar or use agave syrup. Natural and untouched. Overall, it seems commonsense that foods free from chemicals and processing are better for you. Hope this helps!! :-)

Wednesday, December 03, 2008, 9:51 AM

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