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Dog Fighting vs Deer Hunting
let me start by saying that dog fighting is totally cruel and only losers and lowlifes do that stuff. Same thing for people who own or raise pitbulls. Whats the point? On the other hand, I think there is a racial angle to this whole stigma. Deer hunting is totally legal and celebrated. And white people do it primarily. In both cases the animal dies in the end. What is the difference?
Thu. Aug 23, 3:34pm
You are probably right to a certain extent. It seems that people in power go deer hunting in the US, at least that is my impression. Rich white guys. Also, deer hunting involves guns, which is a huge industry.
Thursday, August 23, 2007, 3:58 PM
Purpose of deer hunting
I think your out in left field somewhere. Deer hunting is legal to control the deer poplulation, would you rather a deer get hit by a car, or shot for food. I personally would rather somebody shooting a deer take it to a slaughter house for eating rather than it get hit by a car and laid to rot on the side of the road while whoever hit it pays an arm and a leg for auto repairs. Dogs on the other hand when they are raised to fight are being tortured starved and are bread for killing and end up dying if they lose a fight sometimes. Some pitbulls can be domesticated and kept as a pet like any other dog, only the dog has to be treated right and fed well. Do you see the difference??
Thursday, August 23, 2007, 4:05 PM
let's not forget deer are over populated by 300%. look up the facts, honey, of how many people hit deer every year and how much money goes out each year for medical and vehicle repairs because of the deer.
deer hunting also puts food on the table. Would you rather see them starve all winter long when it's too cold and they can't find food.
I am female, a hunter of deer and foul, and i also have a permit to carry. not happy that someone would imply they are the same. i have two dogs and i would NEVER kill them because I kill deer for food.
Thursday, August 23, 2007, 4:12 PM
so is the issue dogs are a) not tasty and b) not running into our cars and damaging them?
Thursday, August 23, 2007, 4:16 PM
We have to hunt the deer because we killed off all the wolves. We killed all the wolves because they were eating the cows and sheep.
So, now instead of hearing wolf howls at night, we hear the crunch of Deer vs. bumper.
This would be the law of unintended consequences.
In regards to deer hunting being similar to dog fighting, I gotta disagree. The point of deer hunting is to kill a deer, bring it home and eat it. Well, actually, to bring it to a processer who'll butcher it out for you and give you deer steaks, deer sausage, etc. Further, Deer hunting involves a whole bunch of sitting still in cold and usually wet woods, freezing your @$$ off hoping for the chance that one of these critters will walk close enough to you for you to get a clean shot.
You don't find too many people who hunt deer purely for sport- even the hunters who don't actually eat their deer usually donate them to charity (lots of poor families in Wisconsin eat a LOT of deer in the winter)
Sadly, Dog fighting is a lot closer to horse racing- the animals are doing all the work while the owners take all the profits.
Thursday, August 23, 2007, 4:24 PM
i have to agree with those above. here in texas (and all over the u.s.) deer overpopulate every year. many people are killed and seriously harmed from hitting deer. they become a problem when they are so prevalent that they get on to major highways and hang out in people's front yards. this is the case in many places, such as austin. a collision with an adult deer at 65 miles per hour is very dangerous.
also, deer hunting is for food. most hunters hunt to feed a family, while some do it for sport. and there are plenty of poor people and people of different ethnicities who hunt deer. it is not only rich people. notice that when cheney went hunting he shot his own friend. leads me to believe he is not that skilled of a hunter.
race has nothing to do with this issue. i was attacked by a pit bull when walking my dog. when the owner finally came out to get his dog, his was a white man. hunting and dog fighting are very different, and people of all different races and socio economic groups do both.
now-- i propose that michael vick be dumped into a pit with 20 of the dogs that will have to be euthanized. i'd bet on him losing.
Thursday, August 23, 2007, 4:33 PM
WHat's wrong with owning and raising a pitt bull? I own one, I got her from the shelter, she was rescued from a dog-fighting ring, since she was small, she was used as a bait dog to get the other dogs riled up. She is the sweetest thing in the world.
Thursday, August 23, 2007, 4:38 PM
it is sad that pitts have a bad reputation. some are sweet, and some are raised to be vicious. i just think it is sad that all of the dogs will probably have to be euthanized because they have been trained to be fighters. that is too risky to adopt off.
irresponsible pet owners make me sick.
Thursday, August 23, 2007, 4:43 PM
Abuse, in any form, just makes me sick. I know that I'm not perfect but something about pitting two animals (or more) together just to see them tear each other apart, makes me want to throw things, get sick, murder the abusers or maybe just cry. As a usually very kind & peace loving person, it is awful for me to be dreaming up all the ways I could make the animal abusers feel the same pain that they inflict. I'm just not sure how to apply my love of positive energy & healing/spiritual ideals to these situations.
Thursday, August 23, 2007, 4:46 PM
Whoa! I don't even get how anyone equates dog-fighting with deer hunting. You EAT the deer after you've hunted it, but very few people in the U.S. eat dog. And if you're halfway decent as a hunter, the deer doesn't suffer, unlike the dogs. Deer is good lean meat, too. If you're going to eat meat, it's a heck of a lot more honest to kill and butcher your own than it is to pretend that meat grows in little styrofoam platters in the supermarket.
Also, I live in Oklahoma, and most of the people I know here who hunt are Native American. So where does this "only white people hunt," thing come from?
Also, addressing someone else's point, a lot of not-rich people hunt. A lot of rural people hunt for subsistence, because they need the food. That deer (or those deer, if the kids are old enough to have permits) goes into the deep freeze and gets et all winter.
Thursday, August 23, 2007, 6:28 PM
I just wanted to point out that Pit bulls were bred for that purpose- to be pitted against bulls. Also, there are many types of bully breeds that could be used for fighting but are VERY sweet to people and still able and very willing to go and fight another dog- which is why they are not adopted out when they are seized froma criminal fighting case.They are then humanly euthanized.
Some dogs are more prone to fight, like bulls breeds, although thats not to say that ALL bully breeds (or individual bully dogs)cannot coexist or even be very friendly to other dogs. They just need to be well trained and socialized.
Genetics and nurturing play an important role- just like with people ;)
Just thought i would clarify, since thwoing Vick in with 20 of his dogs would do nothing, excepts cause them to fight one another........although cutting off his balls with no sedation then electrocuting him would make ALOT of people feel better ;) He is one sick bastard- as are all his lackeys!
Thursday, August 23, 2007, 6:49 PM
I don't get the pit bull thing at all. I understand that they can be sweet animals, but they can also be ticking time bombs who will kill a kid with no warning. I just saw this on cnn a few days ago in fact. I think there is something wrong with anyone who would own a pit bull, unless they needed to keep cows in check or something like that.
Thursday, August 23, 2007, 7:09 PM
For some reason I feel compelled to respond to that last comment of 7:09. Actually the temperament for working with cattle is very rare even among dogs bred to do so. They need to be intelligent, physically fit (have good endurance and high energy) intuitive, independant, trainable, work closely with humans and feel very protective of another species (that would normally be 'prey') and that is rare. When you are working with a cattle dog, you do not think of them as a 'pet' or even as a dog - they are scary smart in a way that few other breeds are, and are generally pretty friendly and affectionate but they are undeniably 'partners', not pets.
And pit bulls don't qualify. They do not have the temperament to get kicked at and not bite back (and having bitten, to stop there and not maul or kill). or to give chase but not hurt. No rancher I know would ever own a pit bull for purely practical reasons. They can't be trusted with kids or livestock.
And speaking as someone who ate a lot of deer meat growing up on a reservation in the midwest - I completely agree with 6:28 and 4:24.
Thursday, August 23, 2007, 8:36 PM
I can not believe this thread, I can't imagine anything more cruel than dog fighting on so many levels. Do a search on the web and you will be shocked what you find - anyone who participates in this is discusting.
That fact that Micheal Vicks drown, and hung these dogs that did not perform is terrifying, can you imagine what it takes to drown a dog? The sick pleasure they got from that, so hands on. There is no excuse and no justification, zero.
Thursday, August 23, 2007, 9:04 PM
First of all, you cannot logically compare dog fighting and deer hunting, both of which I am whole-heartedly against by the way. One is a blood "sport" for sadistic pleasure and the other is for a whole list of illogical, yet slightly understandable, reasons.
Second, what is this nonsense about dog fighting being a racial issue? Are you trying to suggest that dog fighting is a "black thing?" All colors of morons fight dogs. And last time I checked, it's just as much of a felony for a black person as it is for a white person. And deer hunting is as legal for a black person as it is for a white person. As far as Michael Vick goes, the reason why it is such an ordeal that he was participating in such activities has nothing to do with the fact that he's black, and everything to do with the fact that he is a multi-millionaire NFL player with numerous contracts and endorsements.
Lastly, only losers and lowlifes own or raise pit bulls? What a generalized, ignorant statement. I volunteer for a non-profit, no-kill animal shelter in the city and about 90% of our dogs are police-rescued pit bulls that we adopt out into loving homes with people that are anything but losers and lowlifes. Some of these rescue dogs were once fighting dogs that we REHABILITATED. Believe it or not, it can happen. In fact, it happens every damn day because we don't euthanize any animal. We just keep working with them until they trust people and other animals again.
The mounting ignorance on these boards is really starting to get to me. This is a WEIGHT LOSS AND FITNESS website. Keep it on topic, or seriously, please find somewhere else to spew your ridiculous views of the world. Now if you want to discuss the caloric burn of fighting dogs versus hunting deer, or the grams of fat in an ounce of deer flesh versus the grams of fat in an ounce of murdered dog, that might keep it more on topic.
Thursday, August 23, 2007, 11:31 PM
The other problem is that when a hunter shoots and kills a deer they do it do kill quickly. The deer does not suffer. They do not torture the animal to get it in training shape, and if it does not perform well they do not then drown, hang, or beat the animal to death.
Many of our humane societies have to euthenize animals do to overpopulation. The problem with dog fighting is it is torturing animals that is why it is illegal. If hunters or humane socieities tortured animals they would be attacked the same way as Michael Vick. This is not a racial issue it is an issue of treating animals with care and respect because they are living beings. It is an issue of obeying the law.
Thursday, August 23, 2007, 11:36 PM
Well said 11:31
Friday, August 24, 2007, 12:17 AM
Can you compare a hamburger to dog fighting??? I don't think so!
Deer hunting is no different than killing a beef! It is done quickly and then processed for food!
Dog fighting serves no purpose but sick entertainment!
Friday, August 24, 2007, 8:24 AM
or any animal fighting-- cock fighting, bull fighting, etc. I agree totally with 11:31 and 11:36, but in this instance they said the dogs would have to be euthanized if their owners didn't claim them (which i doubt they will) because they were way too risky to adopt out. very sad indeed.
Friday, August 24, 2007, 9:33 AM
I can't believe no one is commenting on the OP saying that it's deer hunting vs. dog fighting has a "racial stigma". Sure maybe more white people are out hunting deer-possibly because the less populated areas in this country are populated mostly by whites, but I'm sure there are plenty of screwed up white people taking part in dog fighting too. I don't think hunting deer is even remotely close to dog fighting or even grehound or horse racing. I don't care what color you are, drowing or pitting dogs against each other is unforgivable.
It's not a race issue.
Friday, August 24, 2007, 12:09 PM
I did comment on the OP's ridiculous race statement.
Friday, August 24, 2007, 1:39 PM
let's also not forget not only did michael vick drown dogs he also had them sprayed with water and electrocuted if they didn't perfom well.... i've read the indictment, and it's horrendus. the fact that someone could compare deer hunting to dog fighting and abuse is beyond me...
Friday, August 24, 2007, 5:12 PM
I personally don't have a problem if people want to hunt. I don't have the stomach for it myself, but the points about controlling the deer population and hunting for food are why I'm OK with it. But don't kid yourself that the deer do not suffer when hunted. A friend of my dad's hunts with a bow and arrow and called my dad to help him track a deer he shot. They tracked it for a good 3 hours, and it wasn't a badly placed shot either. Just so there's no misconceptions.
Friday, August 24, 2007, 5:45 PM
Good point 5:45
Friday, August 24, 2007, 6:09 PM
Looks like OP is an underprevileged black woman who is trying to stick up for her bro. There is a reason dog fighting is illegal and it has nothing to do with white people being in power!
This argument should have never been brought up, however I applaud all of you who explained the purposes behind hunting to this ignoramous.
Friday, August 24, 2007, 9:21 PM
it's a cultural thing...???
LOS ANGELES, Calif. (August 23, 2007) – Access Hollywood’s Shaun Robinson recently sat down with Jamie Foxx for a candid talk about Jamie’s new gig – and even a hot button topic from the world of sports – Michael Vick’s dog fighting charges.
“Is he really going to jail?” Jamie asked Shaun about Michael Vick.
“Yes, he’s going to plea bargain,” Shaun said.
Although Vick has been almost universally condemned since agreeing to plead guilty to dog fighting conspiracy, according to Foxx, people should not be so quick to judge the NFL star.
“It’s a cultural thing, I think,” Jamie said. “Most brothers didn’t know that, you know. I used to see dogs fighting in the neighborhood all the time. I didn’t know that was Fed time. So, mike probably just didn’t read his handbook on what not to do as a black star.”
While he has a way of lightening even the most sensitive of subjects, Jamie is sincere in his belief that the quarterback is not being given a fair shake.
“I know that cruelty to animals is bad, but sometimes people shoot people and kill people and don’t get time,” Jamie continued. “I think in this situation, he really didn’t know the extent of it, so I always give him the benefit of the doubt.”
On Monday, Vick said through a lawyer that he will plead guilty to a federal charge of conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and conspiracy to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture.
Vick is scheduled to appear next Monday in U.S. District Court in Richmond, Virginia. According to reports, the recommended sentencing range will be from 12 to 18 months in prison.
Friday, August 24, 2007, 10:07 PM
HUGE difference!!! Dog fighting you breed and raise dogs to be violent and nasty, usually by abuse and neglect. Not to mention the fact that we as society think of dog as being mans best friend, they are domestic animals. Deer hunting, most hunters eat the meat, they can only do it at a certain time of the year and it keeps the deer populations under control, somewhat. Deer hunting was a survival tool way back when. I don't think killing an animal that is legal to kill as long as you actually use it is a bad thing. I love deer they are beautiful gentle creatures but they are also tasty eating, would you eat your dog? Not in this country....
Saturday, August 25, 2007, 12:44 AM
I know many people who've had pits. And all of them have been great dogs. It is up to the owner to raise the dog. How you treat your PET will show in the way your pets behavior is. What Vick did is a disgusting thing. Its animal abuse on the highest level, he should be given whatever sentence they can give him for his crimes and he should never be allowed to play again. This is not someone I want my kids to idolize.
Saturday, August 25, 2007, 12:56 AM
I'm disappointed in Jamie Foxx for making excuses and sticking up for Vick. If people commit murder and don't get jail time, then something went wrong with the legal system but it doesn't create a "curve" so that other crimes don't get jail time.
Saturday, August 25, 2007, 11:40 AM
Personally I'm sick of all the celebrities who have broken the law, committed crimes and had nothing but a slap on the wrist. Why do they deserve any better treatment then the average citizen? They are privileged people with lots of fracking money they shouldn't get special treatment.
Saturday, August 25, 2007, 2:45 PM
So, kill the deers, huh ? Thats the only choice, huh ? Why not displace them, so that they live as part of their rights on this planet ? Excuses, Excuses, and more Excuses. This has always been the case. There is NO difference whatsoever because, bottom line. Animals rights are violated and their lives are taken for granted as a game for humans. Who are we to say that killing is the only right option ? How about killing animals for OUR pleasure ? Thats right ? White America always finds some type of excuse to come up with and try to prove that it is OKAY, as long as they are doing the writing of laws that benefit themselves. When its a non-white, thats when its a PROBLEM. You guys make the laws work for yourselves and nobody else. For some of you who think there is a difference are a bunch of hypocrites, whom also probably believe racism doesnt exist anymore. If you really felt that way about the deer population, you would move them. But then, again, why would you ? When you like killing deer for a sport. TO ALL U RACIST HYPOCRITES.....There is no difference. Humans are taking advantage of animals, and thats wrong. So, Stop justifying your malevolent ways versus animals. LET THEM LIVE.
Monday, August 27, 2007, 10:36 AM
I think that the over-population argument is pretty laughable...humans are over-populating this earth. We are moving into new areas all the time & that is what displaces the deer & many other species. We are taking over & abusing our earth & all of the other creatures on it...this is why we have deer giving birth in front yards & running across highways. When we have housing developments sprouting up on field lands & former wooded areas where are the animals supposed to go? How does it make sense that we gun them down because we have outgrown our own habitat? When we cover the land in concrete highways, of course deer are going to cross our paths. I think it is so arrogant of us to constantly see things through human eyes...
Monday, August 27, 2007, 11:38 AM
11:38, if you are that concerned with overpopulation, PLEASE do us all a favor and lead us by example and either kill yourself or get yourself fixed. Otherwise, you are just making noise about a problem you have no intention of fixing.
Monday, August 27, 2007, 12:08 PM
Wow, 12:08, very harsh, don't you think. I don't remember personally attacking you or anyone else. I'm not so incredibly concerned that i will hurt myself, not have one or two children, or say come hunt you down. I just thought my feelings were well placed considering the title of the tread & the discussion. Why do you feel so hopeless that you would tell some stranger to go kill herself? I love people & animals very much. I just get so frustrated at how much ALL lives are taken for granted. I probably shouldn't be responding to you as I am setting myself up for more verbal abuse.
Monday, August 27, 2007, 12:31 PM
Harsh, yeah, probably a bit. Sorry 'bout that. But, if you are concerned about human overpopulation, what's the solution? You either stop having children or you start killing people. In the past, this has been done with war or with disease. But, those two options disproportionately target the poor, so that's not exactly fair. So, Suicide. Not as random as war or disease, less class specific.
I agree with you that it's sad that all lives ARE taken for granted these days- Our stewardship of this planet has been a pathetic mess. I also believe that we will have to change our ways before everything dies.
But, we'll always look at things through human eyes first. The trick is teaching people to understand that conservation is in mankinds best interest, not just in the best interest of mother nature.
Monday, August 27, 2007, 1:10 PM
10:36 - do you only disagree with hunting for sport or does hunting for subsistence also bother you? We grew up very poor and not only ate deer but wild turkeys and game birds as well because it was a much cheaper meat than going to the store to buy beef and pork (I know, we could have eaten rice, beans, grains and all that, however times were different then and we weren't raised in necessarily the most health-conscious manner).
I think that dog fighting (and cock fighting and bull fighting) are all disgusting and cruel forms of entertainment. I don't agree with killing for pleasure, whether it be a deer, a dog, or any other kind of animal. However, when you hunt an animal to eat it, I don't have a problem with that.
Monday, August 27, 2007, 4:33 PM
dog fighting=deer hunting?
dog fighting is taking 2 dogs that were well trained, 6 to 12 months. They are train to be mean and aggressive. than let the 2 dogs fight till one drops (badly hurt or die) If your dog cant fight or get to badly hurt the owner kills him.
How can u compare these two and say they are similar "sports". I dont like deer hunting and never would wanna kill a deer. The soul possible of deer hunting was created to bring down the population of them, basically they were getting out of hand. deer hunting involve a guy shooting a deer. theres no 2 deer beating the shit out of each other. fighting dogs is cruel. I love animals, i have a pitbull and i would never want to see my dog go fight another one and i would never watch a dog fight.
Both are cruel. You think deers wanna get shoot at? hell no!!!
just like 2 pits most likely dont wanna fight till near death.
Both these sports are cruel and deer hunting shooting be legal.
but comparing a dog fight were the loser will be badly hurt(killed becuz it wont be able to fight and the owner will pull it down because it'll cost to much to pay bills) and shooting at deers is just retarded.
Sunday, October 14, 2007, 2:10 AM
Here is my take on it and I am sure some will disagree.
First off deer hunting is legal and dog fighting is not.
It's kind of like comparing illegal drugs and alcahol.Are they both bad for you?Yes,but people still drink because they can.
I think raising any animal to have it fight until its death is torture and morally just wrong! Also sport hunting just to leave the animal is wrong and both are punishable by law! However to kill something you intend on eating is no different than buying already processed meat at the store,you are just cutting out the middle man.
To assume that most people who hunt are rich and white is also crazy.Most everyone I know hunts and they are not rich or all white,they are all middle class.They also take the meat to a processing plant,the same as people do with cows,pigs,chicken or even fish to have them processed and sent to grocery stores.
Not everyone is always going to follow the law and there are sicko's everywhere so no matter what subject you get on there will always be an example of someone doing something morally and ethically wrong and those people deserve to be punished.
Sunday, October 14, 2007, 2:37 PM
Dog Fighting vs. Deer Hunting
9:21 Looks like someone's just lashing out against a black woman. How do you know she's black. racist! You're the reason this country can't progress, always wanting to lash out against the blacks.
Friday, January 07, 2011, 6:49 AM
Just seems to me that someone was bored and started this stupid thread, and I admit I am bored that's why I read it!
Friday, January 07, 2011, 11:12 AM
The whole dog fighting thing makes no sense but I guess to each his own. But why would anyone get enjoyment out of this? Is it a geographical thing?
Saturday, January 08, 2011, 2:31 PM
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